Is MSP better than MP or P3

Brod,

If it is not mentioned in the contract or ITB (instruction to bidders), I suggest you use P3 (or P3e/c). It is the universal software in planning/scheduling among Project Owners, Consultants and Contractors/Subcons.

You can visit www.primavera.com to find a dealer nearest your area & how much it will cost you.

Best Regards.

Joel,
define what you want from the software. Your needs define the choice. If you need something MS Project does not support then look at P3e, if you need something P3e does not support the look to Spider Project.

Yeah I knew I’d get the P3 Planners jumping on my case.

Just to clear the air I’ve been using P3 since 1988 the old Dos version, Probably a big portion of the planners on this web where still at school then, so I dont want to get into a debacle about P3.
Yes it the best but it is expensive and on this project they dont see the justification and not only that it’s probably going to never be used again after this project is built.

Yes we will be using it to do up to level 5 planning, how else can we build the project. Yes we will be importing and exporting from MSP to P3 and visa versa.

The client will use their own software that they are developing for shutdowns Etc. P3 doe’nt want to help you if you dont take up the maintenance contract how does one explain that to the client. Therefore I’m looking for other avenues, hopefully without attracting some smarty pants replies.

After all that is what this web site is for, not to see who’s the smartest planner but to assist.

I hope I havent gone overboard, I guess my age is comming through.

Any constructive response welcomed

Hi Joel,

From your response, it is very clear where your heading.

I can’t understand 2.3 Billion Project and P3 not worth an investment.

Anyway cheers,

Charlie

Joel,
what are your requirements to the software to be used?
It shall be inexpensive, what else?
What parameters shall be controlled, the number of users, estimate of activity and resource quantities, costing requirements, report requirements, etc.?
If you need some useful advise then decribe the task.

Hello Vladimir,

It is nice to hear from you. This post may not be relevance to the topic at hand, but this is very important to me.

I would like to know if the free software from Spider is available (it is now middle of September 2005) for download as what you stated in your previous thread.

Please dont delete this since others may be interested that there will be a free download of Spider Project Management Software.

Thanks,

Charlie

Hi Charlie, thank you for your interest and yes, you can download Spider Project Demo version from http://www.spiderproject.ru/spider_e.php Demo is full functional but can work only with 40 activities and does not include export/import to databases, MSP and Primavera. This Demo is used for teaching students by many Universities. Try it, I will be grateful if you will inform me about your opinion. If you will think that it does not do something (even if it is not supported by any other PM software) then ask me and I will explain how it shall be done. The real version can handle 15K project easily (and 150k too). Best Regards, Vladimir

uhhhh god mr valdimir, i did try to open "http://www.spiderproject.ru/spider_e.php" i could not understand. Do u have another address in english version.

Please try http://www.spiderproject.ru/enter.php?ver=prof&lang=eng
I am afraid that the previous address works for registered users.
If it will not work then go to www.spiderproject.ru, select English, then select Spider Project to download Demo, or Publications for downloading papers and presentations.
Excuse me for the wrong address.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

Thanks Mr vladimir, "http://www.spiderproject.ru/enter.php?ver=prof&lang=eng" this address can be use.

Hi there,

Raja, if you use spider, you will look like Spiderman....

Hi Edgar,
What’s up now.., I have to find more knowledge for my brain at least i’m not far behind from Hi Tech World cause i’m affraid loosing my dinner.

Hi Planners,

Has anybody got some powerpoint presentation available that I can use for P3 Presentation to the client anything will be welcomed. My E mail address is joel.gilbert@amecsh.com

Dont tell me to ask P3 they always have a price tag to everything. Before somebody else says anything about they dont understand why a 2.3 billion Project cant afford the cost you are welcome to come here and tell the client that.

Regards,

Planner in need.

Hi Joel,

I will prepare a very powerful presentation, BUT ...

There is a price tag. It will be cheaper than Primavera becuase this is only homemade BUT ...

It is also a little bit expensive becuase this will customize your needs.

Everything got price because of my INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.

Cheers,

Charlie

Hi Joel,

I think you already know the answer to your question. The only question is it worth to buy. Then we go to the next step, how will you convince your client. it’s a tough one especially if the people your going to convince does not realize the difference between a cheap and not so effective software and an expensive but effective one.

Why do you think companies are buying SAP instead of buying some cheap accounting/procurement softwares? It’s because the users of this software were able to convince their management that it is the most effective software for their company. If you can not convince your client, the there’s nothing we can do about that.

If you ask me, can you use MSP in a 2++Billion project, my answer is yes you can use it. Can you work effectively and efficiently as a planner, my answer is no.

Cheers,
Se

Hi Joel,

I agree with Sig.

You are really in a very difficult situation. A lot of things that comes from that part of the world are cheap. Also the approach to project planning is cheap.

My advice is be careful. You might lose you high paying job. And all this because of some advice from PP. It is not the intention of PP for other peers to lose their jobs in propagating Primavera software.

Just be practical and play with the politics in the environment you are in. As the saying goes...

WHEN YOU ARE IN ROME, ACTS LIKE THE ROMANS.

So why pursue expensive software when you know your client is looking for cheap software.

You can try spider. Its free download but only limited to 40 activities.

Cheers,

Charlie

For me it is strange that project planners discuss the choice of PM software without knowledge of the requirements.
I agree that MS Project is a poor tool but it may be sufficient if the requirements are restricted by drawing project Gantt charts based on estimations that were made by people.
Primavera is more powerful but also has many weak points and is not an optimal choice for every project.
Spider Project is even more powerful but Joel does not know it and it may be a good reason for selecting something more familiar.
Without knowledge about project and organization requirements it is not easy to advise an optimal tool. It is not proper and it is not safe.

Oui, porquoi pas(why not) Spider. It could be the middle ground between being cheap and efffective. I’m not a user of Spider, so i can not make comments about it.

Cheers,
SE

Thanks planners,

I guess I’ll have to stick with what I know P3, now I have to do the convincing part. Pity P3 is so pricy and I will have to apply for about 15 licenses that price tag will be hard for the client to swallow.
I will try one more avenue as I have worked on open plan before and found it on about the same level as P3

Now that will be fun to hear the PP comments. Ok let’s hear it.

Regards

Oh,

Hi again.

Your client know how to get cheap or free P3. I don’t have to say the word or how to do it.

Alway remember, that part of the world is CHEAP. Only expat are paid high salary and living luxurious life.

If your job is prejudge due to your insistence in P3, then, don’t pursue it. Cheap planning software can work well in that environment. If HARVARD GRAPHICS is still available in the market, you can use it.

Cheers,

Charlie

Hi there,

Why not do it manually Joel, you got a lot of resources in China....over 1 billion people....you can even build that great wall.

hi,
use the software to make your schedule easier, not to make you difficult unless the contract is request diffrent thing

Bill Guthrie,
Joel wrote:
"The client will use their own software that they are developing for shutdowns Etc. P3 doe’nt want to help you if you dont take up the maintenance contract how does one explain that to the client. Therefore I’m looking for other avenues ..."
We discussed other avenues and I suggested Joel not to use Spider but to create a list of requirements to be able to select the software that is most practical for his needs and to defend his choice with his client.
Please read the discussion correctly.
Regards,
Vladimir

Hi Bill,

You still do not know all the clients, some are thick, but I share your sentiments

Are we to presume ALL clients are educated in building this would be a difficult concept to accept

Hi Guys,

I’m new to this forum. Just join today. I represent the client. In the ITB (Invitation To Bid), normally we specify either MSP or P3 to be used by the contractor. So far most of them use P3...

However, based on my limited experience, for small and not that complicated project, it is much easier to use MS Project. As for me, I’m more familiar with MSP. Most of the engrs (non-planners) that I’ve met also prefer MSP coz easy to use, more user friendly & readily available as part of the company’s MS Office Package software.

From my observation, P3 is only used or operated by project planner only...

Thanks

norzul

Would you compare a sports car with bus or a truck or a cycle???
I hope not!
Each of them have their specific strengths and specific weaknesses.
Just use the right tool for the job at hand
DS

Clive,
You’re 100% right, Powerproject 8 is an excellent scheduling software to use, with plenty of interesting functionalities.
Once you start with it, you will not like to use MSP any more.
IMO, PP8 is almost as powerfull as P3 for medium sized projects, easier to use because of a more modern interface.
I am trying to promote it here in France, but MSP share is 2/3 of the market ...
Alexandre

Clive
I agree with you entirely.
I am an advocate of ASTA Power Project as you will see if you read my article on ASTA’s website

http://www.astadev.com/news/Articles/individual_article.asp?id=133

But there is no purpose in trying to convert every planner by saying that it is the one and only planning software that one should use.

If a planner is given MSP because that is what the client or other party dictates or because it is the only software he is proficient in or it is the only software he is comfortable with and has a will to learn then let him use it if produces his objective be it a Ghant Chart or a CP network.
Like you, I have used many of the other planning software available but as a planning software of choice I would opt to use Power Project without closing my mind to using any of the others on the market.
DS

Hi All,

I am not too sure if power project is better than MP or P3.

Clive, you wrote that is "Easy to use just click and draw", but how about if I have more than 2000 activities and I want to link the activity number 2 with the number 500, 900, 1500, etc. Is not easy just draw a link, I think would be better if we can work in a dialog box, where it will be possible to change the number or the name of any activity (How many programs do it).And also if I want to delete a link I need to find it first (I mean as a drawing) and then delete it.
It sounds too long to me because I know other programs can do the same in less time.

Paola

"What PP allows you to do that I dont think is possible under other programmes is to put in links related to % completion of the predecessor"

Clive,
for your information:
in Spider Project you can define percent complete or volume of work (in physical units - meters, tons, etc.) that must be completed on predecessor activity before successor activity can start or finish.
If you want to download a demo of Spider Project go to this link
http://www.spiderproject.ru/spider_e.php

Kind regards
Vladimir

In MSP you can apply a link based on a % of the duration of the predecessor. Very easy, very useful.

P3e...pain-in-the-bum to update % progress on any more than a few tens of activities.....unless I’ve missed something. I’m still learning it, so I’ve yet to discover the easy way to do stuff......so watch this space.

James.

Joil,

Regarding your second post (quoted below), i find it very aggrissive and insulting to all the planners in this forum, and especiallty for who replied to your original post.

The reason that you got general reply, that your original post was vague and not specific by any mean, i wonder what you expected to get as reply for such post!! and i am surprising to see your post after that under-minding who replied to you. I think instead of making that effort to reply in such way, it would have been better if you used half that effort to make your original post clear. Also, i think that your post ignored the time and effort the kind planners gave to reply to, you aiming to help you after all, if i were you i would just thank them for their time, and say that that is what i was aksing about, and i would make my self clear.

Actually, i am surprised to see that much reply to you despite of your language in the above post, i think the only reson for that is this forum is full of truly kind and helpfull guys.

"Yeah I knew I’d get the P3 Planners jumping on my case.

Just to clear the air I’ve been using P3 since 1988 the old Dos version, Probably a big portion of the planners on this web where still at school then, so I dont want to get into a debacle about P3.
Yes it the best but it is expensive and on this project they dont see the justification and not only that it’s probably going to never be used again after this project is built.

Yes we will be using it to do up to level 5 planning, how else can we build the project. Yes we will be importing and exporting from MSP to P3 and visa versa.

The client will use their own software that they are developing for shutdowns Etc. P3 doe’nt want to help you if you dont take up the maintenance contract how does one explain that to the client. Therefore I’m looking for other avenues, hopefully without attracting some smarty pants replies.

After all that is what this web site is for, not to see who’s the smartest planner but to assist.

I hope I havent gone overboard, I guess my age is comming through.

Any constructive response welcomed "

Hi Walied
Please do not close your mind to all other scheduling and project managing software. Even Primavera has moved and left P3 behind as it was based on the old 8 bit architecture.
Try out the new graphic based planning tools. They still are able to do the data base calculations behind the scenes, leaving you to see and think of the result of your scheduling.
However, I do understand how you feel because I have had to re-learn new versions of once familiar software and learn the very new software because it was what the company used or made available to you, or it was what the client wanted you to use.
Just look at it as a tool. The more tools you are able to use the better and more competent you would be.
Good Luck
Daya

Daya,

While i thank you for your post, i don’t find any thing in my post regarding that issue,

What i wanted to say to Joel, that his post had a bad language to other planners in this forum, and requsteing him to enhance his wording to avoid any direct or indirect insultation to planners.

The paragraphes between the qutation marks (") in my above post is not my wording, i qouted it from Joel post.

On the other hand, your point of view is extremely correct, the planner should be able to use any tool. Regarding my self, I am teaching P3 and MS-Project as a part time, actually i wrote Instructor-led books for both tools, meanwhile i am trying to be more familiar with Pe/c.

Thank you again.

Walied
Thank you for correcting me.
I read your words again and yes I agree with you.
Daya

Primavera is the only package that cannot do percentage lags, even there latest version cannot. Others have done it for years. remember Prestige in the good old DOS days it did it. MS Projects has done it as far back as I can remember.

Project Views Rules.

Nigel,

What’s the use of percentage lag.. if you don’t mind?

thanks

Edgar,
When using MS Project, you can say that the link between tasks A and B is Finish to Start with either a 3 or a 50% day lag; presuming that task A is 6 day long, the result is the same.

Nigel,
I would rather say that not all scheduling packages know the percentage lag: Sciforma Project Scheduler does not know about it, while AstaDev PowerProject 8 does.

All the best

Thanks Alex, I thought it has other use...

Can anyone tell me why this tread was started in, and has continued in, the Powerproject Forum?

All these areguemnts have been run before see here and the conclusion is that most users have their favourite piece of software and are unable to look objectivley at anything else - primarily because they tend not to have in-depth knowledge of competing software.

Independent research is hard to come by, in the mean time I am not sure what benefit there is in agruing ’mine is bigger than yours’.


David

It’s ’cos were ’uman.

Bigger, faster, better, cheaper.

James

uman? speak for yourself!

Are you not ’uman? Do ’e not belong to us ’uman beens? Worrah ’e then?

am in-uman of course.

’e must be a planner then. Am oi roight?

Every planning software has its own merits and demerits .. No one is 100% perfect in all respect rather it is P3, P3e or Power Project....so use whichever you feel comfortable or your Company assigned you…..

Richard

You have resurected this thread after 3 months when it started to get silly???
How ever, I do agree with your views the we have to give the Client what he/she wants, can understand and requires to communicate with the other stakeholders.
In addition, we as planners have to arrive at the answer having considered the interrelating nitty gritty detail in a competent and diligent manner and using the industry accepted "Best Practice" processes and procedures.
Presentation is important for getting the message across.
The message can only be correct if the mechanics behind the scene is correct.
The planning software you use is the tool for calculating and presenting your answer.
Planners must ensure that they know how to efficiently use the tools of the trade; the software, whatever it is.
Daya

Hi there all,
it’s amazing that planners in the UK know nothing about www.sciforma.com Project Scheduler or PSNext; we in France consider it’s much better than MSP, and the market share is close to 25%
Alexandre

Alexandre

"much better than MSP, and the market share is close to 25%" does not mean much to those who have never heard of it.

Who has the other 75% of the market?

I have requested a demonstration of the Project Scheduler from the website you mentioned and will give you my opinion when I have checked it out.

Daya