Becoming a Planner?

Mmm lets see - Computer programmer takes on multi dicipline engineering contract? Me thinks not!

Best bet is to scour this website for intermediate planning jobs and try to gain experience in civils / M&E or EPC first. Railway projects can be pretty fast "track" and they dont really want to "train" people

Also may want to consider getting an engineering qualification of some description - or target IT planning to get the feel of the work. You wouldn’t want to "derail" your self on the first job now ?

Arf Arf !!

lol yea your right, I am really unsure to what I should look into still! as the only suggestion I was told was to go in to Trains and work your way from that!!!

also IT planning? whats that ?
reagards

I think try starting with planning in IT projects, I hear there is some scope there.

Try Airport Projects, there’s lots of IT companies working for the various systems of an airport.

hi Airport would be really good for me as I live next to gatwick Airport UK. but what will the job involve?
as mentioned IT planning? can someone explain.. what i need to do to get in to this?
regards

you should know the basic planning fundamentals and network preparation rule before starting the career in as a planner.You should know about difeerent phases of project life cycle and basic activities of that. Then you can start your career in planning of any field. Only knowing operation of P3 can’t help you to become a good planner. Remember that planner is not a computer operator only.

Hi Buddy,

Planning and scheduling looks very simple.By mere knowing P3 if anyone could become a planner then the industry would be flooded with planners alone. Well if you really want to be planner the you got to spend some time in site activities , say couple of years and then think of getting in to planning department in which ever field of planning you choose.

well I think you shud learn basics of planning like methodology of activity, sequencing activities, productivity of labour, awareness on right kind and latest equipments for activities, network diagram etc and then get some experience in site to add some confidence behind you and then start planning for a project.

Hope this helps

cheers

i totally understand where your coming from, but the problem for me is 1. I dont have Years to learn! and also I am unsure of which part of Planing will be best, it seems that either rails or Airport IT will be best.. but the other option is any Planning jobs in Oil/petrol as I am looking to move to UAE.
I will be doing a course in P3 that will teach more of the aspects that are suggested by the member who contrimbuted to helping me, which i really appriciate.

If you want to involve in Oil & Gas field, first you shall try to become a Turnaround Scheduler. In plant trunaround you can meet Mechanical, Electrical, Machinery and Instrument Planners.

During the preparation stage the planners will prepare the job method sheet (JMS). The JMS contain all the detail information such as activity description, manpower, equipment and total hours required to complete the job.

As a Turnaround Scheduler, you will use the approved JMS to develop the summary and detail schedule which is resource loaded. Upon completion, you can discussed with the plant engineers as well as with your planners to fine tune the schedule.

Once approved by client, you can distribute the schedule to the contractor for them to follow during the execution period.

Hi Sukumaran,

Many wanted to be a Turnaround scheduler as the pay is quite good esp here in Kerteh. But what is the entry requirements needed? How do you start? Assuming that you are from an IT background.

Best regards,
Rashidi

hi Ahmad

Sukumaran already well explained and in detai lthe requirement and pocedure of trunaround scheduling.

So you need to be moved accordingly

Yeah, I must thank him for that.

Now, I am involved in new mega project i.e. highway construction. I found out that there is a special software in the market that could minimize my time to prepare a time location chart that import template from MS Project or P3. In the midst of exploring it. Cool!

Rashidi

Hi Rashidi,

What is the software’s name and where can I get it? Any info please forward to my e-mail address sukumaransubaramaniyan@yahoo.co.uk

TQ.

Anyway, you haven’t read the private message I forward to you on 27/04/05.

Regards.

ibrar ulhaq
To be a planner, you have to know the the industry you are hoping to plan.
Initially you could begin as a scheduler and input the date that a planner or manager sets out for you and you can learn about the industry you are working and the methods, sequence of activities, resources required, how to build up and calculate durations or find out from other sources, but be aware as you need to understand the relevance of the rate with regard to your specific project.
But as others have advised it is better to enter the industry you already have some knowledge in the computer industry because you have a better idea on how it functions.
Then you will need to learn to use the planning soft chosen for the project programme management and control.
With dilighnt application it would not take long to learn the basics and then progress to the more complex applications
Best of Luck

There are different types of Planning work operation and you need to know what specifically type of palnning work you have to establish.

Turn around planner has big differences in Process Plant Construction although both of them are Oil & Gas. Turn around planner deals mostly in the existing Plant maintenance and turn around work where you need to open, maintain, additional piping or instruments, cleaning, pre-commission, start-up. While, Process Plant construction start from Foundation, Equipment Erection, Piping, E & I work, Precomm. Commissioning & Plant Start up. This does not includes the Engineering, Procurement (if EPC Contract).

Therefore, any planning work has to study and develop according to the site condition, work environment, type of contracts. Well of course the planning software is the application tools where you need experience to have well organize construction logics.

Hi guys,
Just want to share what Mr Pedrito say, What he told u guys is the true story but not just that its also related with safety commercial, contract and business. As a planner they have to know 5 common discipline activities also know how to come out with solution for activities that having obstruction / interfacing activities. The important key is how to dig the job method information.

I dont suggest sombody new in oil and gas to do live plant (turnaround)!!!...Start with platform fabricator planner.
cheers..

Hi guys,

Ithink you are missing the point here, ie missing the pot (piss pot). Let’s for example say you are on a semi brown and green field site in a petro-chem situation, and there is some activities you planned, and are having problems with completing due to the fact you cannot get permits, and all of a sudden the plant needs a shutdown (outage or turnaround) and now you have a gap to get these activities done, how do you plan these if you are so specialised in the scope of planning that you are either a project planner or a shutdown planners. Planners are a breed, and should not be classified into particular disciplines.

Hi all,

Being a planner myself for almost 10 years now, I realised that somehow our market is flooded with those whose merely knows P3 and try to schedule mega projects. Recently, I was reviewing an EOT work program that is flawed with calendar errors, unnecessary constraints, unrealistic floats and best of all, no proper versioning to track changes. The planner doesn’t even knows how the calculation is made from the work program and apparently the planner comes from a computer science background (now doing scheduling for a railway project).

The point here, anybody could become a scheduler but unless he/she could add value to the whole process of project management, he/she will not go very far.

dear philip,
i do intrested with your question its motivated question and chalenging...to me if the case like u said, i will finish my priority system to do shutdown and material preparation , inspection, and paralell with that i will do my construction....anyhow this is just general answer..coz your question not very clear ....

how was it with my answer....

cheers ....

Hi Guys,

Firstly of all Ahmad, the market is not flooded, as can be seen by the number of positions advertised. Secondly, the industry standard is P3, and as such that is what you have to know how to use it, if your employer is using it. Thirdly, your comment about P3 users is incorrect, as anygood planner should be able to learn any new or existing product in no time, as it is planning skills that is required, and not specific computor skills, the computor is just a tool, and to learn a new program is simple, dependant on your planning skills, "If I took your computor away, can you still plan????????? If you can honestly answer this question, you have a place in the planning fraternity.

Raja, I do not think I was asking questions, but if you need clarification, let me know. The point is really about how you think, there is on any job always a lot of experienced people, so that even i some parts are new to you, you can talk to these people and find out what their planning is. The planning mindset I was talking about is the ability, to produce a schedule on paper of all the thoughts, and plans various people, including yourself (dependant on your experience) and then being able to set up a system to figure out if they are doing what they said they could. The first and foremost ability you need is good communication skills, figuring out from experienced guys what they think, and transferring this onto paper and as such a schedule. Secondly, you have to have the ability, to get the right answers from them during the execution of the work, and finding out exactly where they are, and then reflect this on paper, and have the ability to sit in meetings and report it all. Hope this explains it all a bit more clearly.

Regards

Guys
I agree with Philip
Planning software are tools. I choice, if you have one, is to use the correct tool for the job in hand.
Regards
Daya

Hi all,

First of all, the issue is that can you allow a graphic designer become a construction or turnaround scheduler? I don’t think so.

Unless you are familiar with most of the business processes involved then you could add-value to your project team. What I have seen in the market, there are plenty of so-called planner/scheduler (or inspiring to be) are not from those similar verticals. It has create an environment where the so-called planner/scheduler is totally dependant on the engineers to input datas without the ability to produce 85% of the work schedule. As a boss, I don’t that will add value as he/she is merely a data entry clerk (with high pay). :)

Dear All,

I have known a lot who are called planners/ scheduler , though I could say that they are merely data entry clerk only where most of the data are coming from the Project Manager or discipline Engineers just to establish te network. However , this is dangerous to the company especially in submission and approval of Baseline Schedule.

The Planner must have the skills to analyze the full view of the project, ensuring that the Critical Path is well define, resources is properly leveled , deliverables must be well planned (Engineering Procurement) and properly linked to the Construction activities. The Structure must be well organized including the coding structures with the proper heirachy or leveling.

Because Planners are the brain of the project that properly established the schedule and cost control.

Hi guys,

I do not agree with ahmad statements, as a graphic designer still have to plan.

The point is everybody plans, and as such everybody is a planner.
The difference between the "planners and the rest of u
s the capability of putting plans on paper.

This is interesting. What we need is define the fundamentals of new generation planners. This will include the educational qualifications, the minimum software that the planner must be proficient, the planning system approach, the mathematical computations involve in the analysis of schedule and the deliverables.

Why are we doing this? I think the answer is for the survival of planners (real planners).

In project management, we did hear projects without approve schedules, schedules with doubts on how the schedules were develops. There are also cases of weak project management wherein the role of planners are subverted. There are also cases wherein the role of planners are done by site people doing excel Gantt chart without effective relationship. Remember, the world is full of project management team with beliefs that "THE ANCIENT SEVEN WONDER OF THE WORLD WERE DONE WITHOUT PRIMAVERA OR MICROSOFT PROJECT".

In other words, the role of the planners can easily be undermined. Planners need to formulate the essential of the new generation planners for planners to survive.

Shortcut in any field is not a key of success.

Work Hard in your field and get benefits of it. That is real success.

Hi Guys,

I think we are getting to the point here, planners are not there to only report and schedule, the real purpose should be to drive the job, on the basis of time, and make the people aware of what the problems are in getting to target dates. The computor and various software is only tools, to assist you in finding the problem areas and then it is up to you to help resolve them. When real planning in the modern sense was started (It has always existed), in the sense of pert and then gantt, computors was hardly born in that there was none of the tools we have today. Plans (ie Schedules/barcharts) was drawn on drawing boards, and the back of cigareete packets. However the people who drew them had a notion of what they were doing, based mainly on experience.

My concern is that the proper experienced people to train the right ways is diminuishing in numbers firstly, and secondly, you get a graduate straight out of university or technikon, and you allocate him the position as planner. This raises questions. What does the youngster do? He goes out and spends his time trying to learn the software instead of planning. So you end up with so-called planners who know how to drive the software, and can run fancy reports, but do not have an idea of the nuts and bolts, that is necessary to drive the job.

Regards

Hello Philip,

I agree with you in principle. This should be the life of the planners in construction environment, EPC projects, etc.

How about the life of planners in IT environment? Can we say it will be the same?

How about the life of planners in the forensic analyst and claim specialist? I dont think so because the environment there is more on impacted schedule, reveiw of baseline schedule and incorporate events that impact on the baseline schedule for claim purposes (generally, extension of time).

Above is only my observation. I maybe correct or the other way.

I hope we will here from them.

Cheers

Folks,

Wow their are some petty high & low minded ideas here about Planners / Schedulers. What they are, whom they think they are, how well they are paid etc. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Must say thought that, I think anyone from any type of background, experience or education can become a "Planner/Scheduler". As can any Planner become anything else that they wish to become.

What is high pay? And why shouldn’t "data entry clerks" get high pay?

In my opinion we only get what we ask for, if you don’t ask you don’t get. And the various levels of pay differing professions get as pay, generally does not reflect upon economics. Salaries can be incidental.

If a "Data Entry Clerk" is making me a forture, over an average "Boss" then i would imagine that paying the former would make more business sense?????

Regards,
Darrell

Oh yes, and again, given the right teacher & the right teached, one can become a highly experienced planner within about 3 months. Most of what we lean in a life time can be condensed into very short a very short period.

The rest is confidence.

Regards,
Darrell

Planner for a week.

Hi Darrel,

Your idea of "becoming a Planner" is not possible in the petrochemical, oil and gas or construction industry. The client requires a minimum qualification for planners: generally, graduates of engineering course, with years of experience, etc.

Maybe the planner you have in mind can be accepted in small time sub-contractor doing small time job here and there, but for serious company with reputation the kind of planner you envision in this forum is not possible.

The planner may bloat the resume or cv including fraud, but eventually he will be catch up and ... bye bye/goodby after 10 days employment or earlier.

Iin other words "becoming a Planner" is a serious deceision. It is life as a Planner.

Charles,

Thanks for that.
My view perhaps is - You are what you think & do.
If you think it will take you many years or decades to become a "Planner", then that is right, and right for "you" alone. And thus it probably will take a long time, for "you".

Because "You", may be resigned to this belief, does not necesarilly follow that another, may not set out to become the best Planner on the Planet within say 3 months, and achieve that.

Planning has though me personally, at least this one thing.
"Anything is Possible".

Also, could you possibly define the following:-
"Small time", "small time job", & "serious company" within this context. I am confused.

And I would never suggest trying to decieve someone in order to get a job or a role. Personally, if I have not covered or done something before, I would clearly state to the parties where I stand. But am always more than willing to search & study & learn from others etc.

Respect,
Darrell

Hi,
"Anything is Possible" but its must be logic and accept by normal person. i dont deny what u said...maybe 1:100 planners.
Cheers

Hello again,

You see in your own world you can think of "becoming a planner" without engineering background or with 3 months experience as a possibility. This is fantastic.

Try to imagine a person without engineering background and 3 months experience applying for for a job as planners in EPC contracts for nuclear plant, offshore projects, bridge construction, high rise tower building construction, etc.

What do you think will happen to his job application?

We dont have to tell you, real planners know.

Charles,

You are absolutely correct in what you say.

My limited experience, limits me only to my experiences.
I only live in "my own world".

What about applying for a job as an assistant Planner, on say a couple of small house building projects. Getting & doing that job, albeit as an assistant planner and for only three months.

Then moving on to plan a little house on that project, just at the end of that three months. Is it feasable that one could do this, by just taking small steps. By the fourth or fifth month, "The Planner" if given the right assistance, might be capable of Planning a little house build of their own making??????

Isin’t building a nuclear power plant just a small step from building a house?

Come on, it cannot be that difficult???


What’s "A Real Planner"???


Respect,
Darrell

Hi Darrel,

Whoa, there seems to be a lot of question than answer.

With regards to small time sub-contractor, generally the construction industry categories ranking of companies working in the construction industry. Please refer to your construction industry directory. Serious contractor is a matter of opinion. Generally these are contractors that made effort to attain standards of excellence.

I would prefer to define real planners as anybody log in planning planet since by nature I restrain myself in being prejudice or bias. This is only my opinion. Of course, there are a lot of real planners outside PP. As we progress in PP forum, it is very easy to detect the real planners or otherwise.

With regards to your hypothetical case, it is not that easy in the real world of construction. I’ve been in construction for more than 20 years, and I know it is not that easy as you have written.

Maybe in other area let say, financial planner but then the person must have accounting background or .... perhaps how about ????

A Wedding Planner (like JLO in the movie).

Cheers to all PP.

Hi to all my co-PP’s,

The topic seems getting hotter and I feel that most of the real Planners are boasted by their confidence with of course years of experienced during the Construction which is right.
I used to have also that long years of experience and have learned from small, medium and large construction in all types of Construction (ie Buildings, Oil & Gas , Power Plants and even Plant trunaround work), so I can say that I am a real Planner. I can independently prepared Planning work using the Plans, Contracts, or any required provisions in all disiplines. I have learned all these things through long experience (from Conceptual to Definitive).
Years of experience, plus the patience and room for knowledge is the key factor to become a Planner.
Cheers to all and give more time to actual experience and applied those to any softwares application and the result you’ll be a Real Planner.

Hi to all,

This thread makes me aware that there are a lot of different types of planners. While most of us got experience in construction, it is high time for us to be considerate with planners from other fields.

Only an idea.

Cheers

There is also a potential distinction between a Planning Engineer and a Planning Analyst.
In my previous Post on an IT contract, I was happy to call myself a Planning engineer (Having Built and rolled out systems and networks in my previous career).
However, my current contract is within the Nuclear/Powergen sector where I have little experience. Here my qualitative input in the Design Decision making process is purely based around the Practicalities and logical restrictions of whether we are sufficiently resourced, have sufficient time, or have leeway with a given contract to take one course of action over another. I’m not able to voice an opinion on whether I believe one course of action is *better* than another.
It is this qualitative aspect of the job that suffers when you work outside of your field, the rest (communication skills, planning facilitation, schedule interpretation and analysis, EV analysis and financial performance calcs and reports etc etc) should be applicable regardless of the field. These SHOULD be sufficient should you have a strong enough Project management team.
This is the role that I would term as a Planning Analyst.

Well i agree with Darell

Go for it mate if you want to be a planner be a planner

Brunnel had never built a tunnel but he did it, a couple of other things he did with no experience also, as nobody had experience of what he was doing. Advancements come with failure.

Was Wren an Architect Engineer or Carpenter nobody would remove the props fromn the dome so he did it himself

What about Paxton heard him described as an architect but actually I think he was a smart gardener but he pushed the envelope with his crystal palace

If you have obtained a higher qualification you can think or at least remember and spew out what you have remembered.

Planners must be able to think logically above all else. They must be able to communicate what their thoughts are, they must be able to listen.

Those of us who believe to do this or that requires formal qualifications or experience are deceiving themselves. Yes its usefull but not essential whats essential is to ask why and seek that answer. I agree with Darell 3 months and you can plan.

Go for it, link up with a good teacher serve your time and start planning, understand the process, think listen and learn.

To expand on my last point... I’m paid no less as a Planning Analyst, than I was as a Planning Engineer... it would seem Oscar has hit the nail on the head... What people really want is the thought processes, the logical thinking, challenging of assumptions etc etc.

Go figure...

:o)

Hi,

This message is specifically directed at Daniel ODea.

I don’t know you, you are within the cintext of the greeting, and you have a serious lack of understanding the subject of planning. I have intervened on behalf of the planners on this site, as I have read your derogatory messages and you seen to have the moderators in your pocket. What I am saying is that you could not plan an ice-making machine in the Antartica. You have an attitude that is a ticket to dislike, and reflects all the negative views of humanity, never mind planners

Good luck in all your mis-adventures

Philip

Philip,

Am not sure if it is me you are directing comments at.
My apologies if any offence has been caused, and that is meant sincerly.

I have arguements and opinions like all, but that is all.
Am just participating in some "healthy" discussion and debate. I hold no sway over the moderators, ask "them" directly yourself.

Also, could you quote me in anything that you may have found offensive? And let me know why? Perhaps I could re-explain my view or opinion.

Perhaps I am not as qualified as you to speak as a planner, that I will freely accept. But if you wish me to decist from participating in this forum, speak to the moderators, perhaps they will concurr.

Again, my apologies if any offence has been taken.

ps. I still believe that it shouldn’t take very long to become a planner. Whats the quote, "80% of the results, are a result of 20% of the effort"...

Best wishes,

Darrell (Not Daniel)

Hi,
it is intresting subject, From the post keep on reply, its very difficult to make somebody to understand and Its show how diffcult to be a planner and how many want to be planner.

Philip

I think you are being unreasonable

Darrell expressed a valid opinion

I agree with him

20 years experience (often the same year 20 times) 3 degrees in BS something a couple of MScs and a load of assingments makes not a planner

1 year of solid education under an experienced planner however goes a long way to achieving the goal, with or without a degree and i really dont care what Americans claim to call education when you major in needlwork and minor in structures and get a degree WOT ENGINEER ARE YOU

Look at some of the un-informed opinions that are posted (and I do not consider your opinions are uninformed) so thats why im suprised at your comments.

Think you are out of order Philip

Oscar

Hi Guys, The point is I would employ Darrell ODea, but he will spend a few years learning, like the rest of his working life, but he will be a happy man at the end of time, because he has done something useful

Hello guys....

I have work for 17 years as a pipe supervisor for Brown and Root in different types of proyects from petrochemical to offshore, perhaps I am burn out and want to to move to a field that could be new to me, as "schedule Planner"... So my question is what would be the requirements for this tipe of position right now I am attending University of Houston for a BS in Proyect management

Thanks in advance for the information....

Dear Alvaro Fernando Talavera
You should have no problem, as you would have a vast experience hands on. You will know the correct sequence and durations for the resourses available at hand
You will have to learn however, how to communicate your plan to the rest of the team in the most efficient way. Bar Charts seems to be the universally accepted form. There are many Planning Software Packages. You may need to ask you company which one they use then learn how to use it properly. Get some training on it.
One thing you will have to do is limit the amount of detail you may have been used to, but encompass it within your activities you chose to present your plan of work.
Good Luck
Daya

Hi men,

Dont be to proud in becomming a planner.

this is hard for me to say but this is true.

In one company I worked, the management hired a labourer to do primavera planning. This is true.

Primavera planning degenerate just like what happen in autocad drafstman. In autocad drafting, anyone can be drafstman as long as the person knows how to punch the keyboard hard to the point of destroying the keyboard.

It will only be a matter of time that Primavera planning will be done by accounting graduate, carpenters, masons, out of school youth.

BECOMMING A PLANNER, PRIMAVERA PLANNER IS ??????

A gloomy outlook.

Charlie