EPCM Scheduling

Hi Karl

Welcome to Planning Planet.

What software are you using?

And what is FEL? never heard of it before.

What you are describing is the usual problems associated with Top Down planning.

Let me have the answers to the two questions and we will see how far we can take it.

Best regards

Mike Testro

Thanks

this site is great helped me out a few times

I use Primavera P6

not to be rude but i think this link says it better than i can

http://www.ipaglobal.com/Services/Individual-Capital-Project-Services

Hi Karl

Ok so FEL is basically a structured form of feasabilty study.

I am not up to speed on P6 as I prefer the much more flexible Asta PowerProject.

Back to basics.

The problem with top down planning is that you have made a guess at how long a particular sub-contract package will take - say at level 3.

But when you get the sub-contractors resourced and costed programme at level 4 it will be different - maybe longer.

And then you have to add the package interface links and then your level 4 programme will have no resemblace at all to your level 3 bars and your sub-contractors programme will also change.

This applies even at feasabilty level when you are outsourcing specific tasks such as surveys and planning investigations.

That is why I advocate level 4 programmes right from the very start - If you don't know the sub-contractor's detailed task sequence then ask someone who does.

Regarding importing sub contract perogrammes into the master programme in Asta PowerProject I can just copy and paste the tasks into the correct location - I still have to link up the interfaces.

There is an import export facility in P6 but you need to get other peoples advice for that.

Better still switch to Asta and make your life easier - you can interchange between the software at any time.

Best regards

Mike Testro

I disagree with Mike here. -I think you have to utilise rolling wave planning for this type of job. If I have understood the FEL stages correctly,they might go something like this:

FEL 1: If we could get oil from X to Y for less than £Z, we could make some money

FEL 2: We've looked at a pipeline and a terminal, and the pipeline us the better option

FEL 3: Pipeline will be Akm long, have B pumping stations, and terminate at a tank farm with C capacity

So I don't think you would be able to do a decent bottom-up plan for future stages until you are near the end of each stage.

rolling wave planning means a detailed bottom-up programme for the current stage, and progressively less detail in future stages. Part of the process for completed a stage and starting the next becomes developing & agreeing the next iteraton of the schedule.

You may also find that part of the decision making process for saying choosing between a pipeline and a terminal will be how long each would take to build, so you might find yourself building hypothetical bottom-up plans for a number of possible scenarios to inform that decision.

It seems that FELs 1 & 2 will only have 1-6 people worknig on them. that being the case, I'm not sure I'd bother with adding hours to the schedule unless you have lots of these programmes running simultaeneously and want to roll them all up to get a picture of overall resource utilisation

Bu the time you are in Excecution stage, you should have a bottom-up schedule as Mike suggests. Then it is just a matter or replacing your schedule with the subbies as & when they are appointed. -Hopefully you or someone within tyour organisation should understand their work quite well, and the key dates you forecast would form part of the negotioations with the subby before subcontract is awarded, so the programmes shouldn't differ wildly.

Yes you should definitely show the full scope wether awarded or not in the schedule. Just make sure for each package you have a milestone at the front end for Awarding it. You may find it useful to set up an activity code for Awarded / Not Awarded as well.

Put the whole contractor schedule in your programme, not just a summary. You will often find there needs to be logical links between elements of different subcontractor packages which you would not be able to model accurately using just a summary bar.

When updating the programme from a contractor's submission, there are a number of options and it will to some extend depend on the size of the programmes, what software they are using, and how your P6 setup works in your firm. You could send your subbies a copy of your master programme (or an excel dump), have them update their bit, and merge all the updates at your end, or you could set up your system so they can update your master programme online, or you could manually update based on their submitted programme. If time allows, I prefer the latter as it allows / forces me to ensure I understand every change to my schedule as it being made.

Cheers,

G

Hi Gary

Thanks for the detailed explanation - if ever I get involved in any FEL situation I will keep it in mind.

Just one point - what happens when developing your rolling wave the duration of your detailed programme is substantially different to the original summary?

And just one more - if it is a pipeline the one thing I do know about P6 is that is not fit for linear projects.

Best regards

Mike Testro

Hi Mike,

If my detailed programme is substantially different to my original summary, then the same thing would happen as if your detailed programme was substantially different to your original bottom-up programme. -Check for errors, understand what has changed & why, seek approval, and move on.

A bottom-up porgramme based on an unknown scope is no more likely to be accurate than a summary programme based on unknown scope. It just a) takes longer to build / correct once the scope is known and b) gives an illusion of accuracy that isn't there.