Primavera P3 is OBSOLETE

Vladimir,

I can get from San Juan to Ponce, in a 1980’s Yugo as well as in a brand new 750Li BMW.

The ride is not the same.

Best regards,
Rafael

Rafael,
you can do the same trip on foot. Project Management is older than computers and even cars.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

Good Morning Everyone.

I am reaaly enjoying this thread - I should apply to Asta for any future sales commissions.

By the way Rafael - have you set up the "curved" link feature where you can track vertical links that overlay each other in print.

Another thing I like is the infinite number of calendar exceptions that can be set up - each with different colours and hatching - great for differentiating weather or work stoppages on the chart.

Best regards

Mike Testro

Mike,

I am waiting for their e-mail regarding a demo I asked. Meanwhile I am exploring their site.

It is good to find true functionality improvements to the already available fields. I do not need hundreds of additional database fields like P6 is, just a few. Isn’t it enough? More fields means someone will ask you to populate them making you waste unnecessary time and maybe lose perspective by taking away time for analysis on what really matters.

I always asked for better ways to filter relevant data, filter for out-of-sequence, lag and relationship types, a functionality never availabe under P3, among a few others. Poweproject is providing some.

At a schedule update review, with limited time and a PM hurrying you these filters are a blessing. I was a PM for many years, now I am not; I provide services to them and understand how tight of time they always are.

The original developers of P3 could have made it twice as good as Powerproject, but they did not, they are gone and PowerProject is ahead. Everyone, long ago knew P3 was due for an upgrade that never came and even published their own wish list.

By the way, what about PERT/PDM views in PowerProject, I never print the whole diagram but portions of it are very useful.

Best regards,
Rafael

Has somebody tried Project Insight? http://www.projectinsight.net/
It claims to be "Built Using PMI Project Management Standards"

I’m already walking my first steps with Power Project, but this one got my attention.

Carlos

I gave up Power Project because it is not known here, even when I found some good features. Let me know after a few weeks about your experience, is always good to know.

The advantage of web applications, assuming good password security, is that you can anywhere update the file avoiding duplication of effort. The problem is with the acceptance by others. How you can check on the model if you do not have a file comparison tool like Digger?

Best regards
Rafael

Rafael,
you wrote that you gave up PP because it is not known here. So what? If the software has real advantages and can export projects to other programs for communications then what prevents to use it? If it can help to create better plans then why do you prefer to use those tools that are not saticfactory only because other people use them?
Please explain,
Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

If I were free to make my choice I would do what you suggest. Unfortunately CPM is no longer a true project management tool but also a claim tool, therefore the Owner asks for his choice, not yours, it is a contractual requirement.

I agree with your assessment that it should be the Contractor’s choice, in practice this is not how it works. He who has the money makes the rules, the Owner.

Some use the schedule to plan. Some use it to control. Some use it to bargain and negotiate. Some use it to ridicule, while others use it to defend. Some use it to manage. Some use it to monitor. One schedule cannot achieve all of these various ends with equal effectiveness. In fact, the route to some ends is mutually exclusive. As you head in one direction, you distance yourself from another destination.
From: Faster Construction Jobs with CPM Scheduling by Murray B. Wolf

You have no idea of how much I crusade for this practice to be discontinued, but it fits Primavera and a few who have a vested interest. Meanwhile this mutt dog must follow the pack.

If I were into house building I would choose PP, I would be able to print schedule layouts at full drawing size to be posted at the jobsite using a single page for every 10 pages other software would require, at an easier to follow layout for free.

Primavera started with P3 an excellent product at its time, now is showing its age, then they followed with SureTrak. On the other hand I consider P6 a piece of garbage for those who do not need an Enterprise solution. Maybe I will end up swallowing this sour candy, who knows. I hope Owners and Construction Contractors will show some common sense at the end and pick up something else, whatever must be better.

Ironically, for the moment, our product of choice is Primavera SureTrak.

Best regards,
Rafael

Rafael,
if the software can export schedules to the tool required by the Owner then the problem does not exist.
The PM software is the planning tool that helps to organize the work and to optimize resource usage. Reporting is not the primary function though necessary for communications. If the software creates poor schedules then its reporting capabilities do not matter much.
I estimate PM software by its functional features - if it creates good resource constrained schedules, if it can simulate resource work and project restrictions. If everything is fine with this then reporting features can be taken into consideration.
And good project model shall be used for planning, management, control, negotiations, defense and any other real needs. I don’t agree that it can serve only one purpose.
Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir:
Migrating to a new software is not easy task. One must put own effort into migration process. How do you convince an owner to make an effort (in time and money) to migrate?
On the other hand, if I migrate to a new tool is because the new tool has features the old tool doesn’t have. Power Project can export files to and from Primavera, but it can be the case Primavera can’t manage some of the features from an imported Power Project file. Then, what’s the point in buying a new tool if you can’t use it to its max, being limited to the contractors’ tool?

Vladimir

Exporting does not necessarily yield the same results; otherwise the programs would be equivalent, no difference at all, just cosmetics. By the way exporting usually is a pain on the behind. What about when your software does not keep peace with the competition upgrades? Is Spider Project compatible with P6.2 web version?

I agree the functionality is of primordial importance and then reporting can be taken into consideration.

With regard to the many functions the problem is with how specs constraint the other party, namely the Contractor. Some specs tell the Contractor which software to use, the Owner want to use his own software for purposes of claim negotiation and will not allow the Contractor to select the tool of his choosing, the party responsible to generate an implement the schedule. A hundred Owners, a hundred possible software for the Contractor to use, sorry to me this is non-sense. And the list goes on, but may be too distracting from the main theme to list them here.

I would like to be free to pickup Spider Project if this is my wish. Too much control of the industry by single software I don’t like it. It is against free enterprise spirit for our Government agencies to specify Primavera Products, even as a reference it should be only by performance specs. To have Spider Project as an option is for the benefit of all.

Best regards,
Rafael

Rafael,
exporting the schedule (and budget) means that you will not recalculate it. This is like creating special report. To be sure that nothing will be changed apply must dates. So the schedule in P6 database will be the same and presenting it on the Web is P6 function. Of course export means that some software specific information will be lost but P6 user will not notice it because P6 just does not have corresponding fields.
The Owner may require to present the schedule in the certain format. It is not his business how the schedule was created. If using Spider Project can help the Contractor to save a lot of money then why not?

Carlos,
I agree that migrating to new tool is reasonable only if it has some necessary functional features that the old tool does not have (creates better schedules, better simulates the reality, provides better analysis, etc.). I don’t mean specifically Power Project or any specific software. When the schedule is exported to some other tool then it is like providing some report. It does not matter if the contractor’s tool cannot do the same because the schedule and the budget were calculated using the original tool.
As an example: if the contractor uses MS Project and you calculated better resource-constrained schedule using P6 then exporting it to MS Project you suggest to do the work your way. Just switch off automatic levelling or apply must dates.

Vladimir

I agree that what you propose can be done if the migration is flawless.

The problem is when the Owner recalculates the schedule by his own and questions the difference.

It is usually required here to submit the electronic file along with the printed reports.

Also somme reports that run after the recalculation are required. Believe me it is not easy to get away with the use of other software.

Best regards,
Rafael

Rafael,
we have customers - Contractors whose Owners required P6. After some initial disputes and testings they agreed that the Contractor can use Spider Project for managing the work but periodically will provide the schedule (electronic) in P6 format to the Owner.
The same was in 90-s with the Owners that used P3.
If the recalculated schedule is worse then the questions will not be asked. If the recalculated schedule is better then you selected the wrong tool.
But I know that it is not easy to convince the Owner that you have serious reasons for using other software.

Hi All,

This is a interesting discussion and complex one too. The decision of who chose what product is all about market power.

Take this an example, "WordPerfect" or "WordStar" I forgot already, use to be the must known skill for a office staff its hard to learn all the different key stroke. It is the prefer "NOT Perfect" word processing tool (back in the 80’s)

The world had change, why, market power for similar result.
Who change it, the market I guess but you may ask HOW...
MS make their product so easy to learn and so cheap to learn, simple everyone can use it. The create this massive supply (People who know how to use it) in the market, the WS and WP no longer an unique skill, and that is the turning point, since you can hire someone easily with the similar result, which one you prefer, the low risk option of course.

As for planning software go it is the same, try to put an AD for a experienced PP or Spider Project planner compare to a P6/P3 planner. Which one you will get an application for the job.... P3/P6 of course. The market power is there already there for P3/P6, for any other product to break that cycle, you need free training and free product (or at least low cost) AND these training need to offer to all the existing P3/P6 users

You may argue that there is a different between word processing software and planning software. Planning does have the Intellectual Property bit (Brain Power) that is make planner unique skill set. Correct, that is why they have to offer this training to existing user in order to gain market share.

If that happen, P3 or P6 will soon be dead..... (Give too much away for Spider Project marketing manager)

BTW one important qualifier need to be met as well which is "Similar Result if not better” That why MSP fail... because their Product Fail to produce the same result.....

LOL

Alex

Most Planner I know, show their Primavera certification, some planners don’t have primavera certification but their cv are fully loaded with Primavera experience, from P3 to P6.

But most of the planning is done in excel, weight distribution, MS Excel worksheets, MS Excel charts, MS Excel pivot table, MS Access.

P3 and P6, MS Project, etc. will be obsolete, but

MS Excel will always be around forever.

Thank you,
Scarlett

Hi Scarlet

MS Excel is a poor shadow of the original spreadsheet - Lotus 123.

The far superior Lotus software was smothered by Microsoft so what comes around goes around.

Don’t be surprised when Google come up with a better bit of kit than excell - and the sooner the better.

Best regards

Mike Testro.

Hi Alex,
If to use the new planning software the same way as the previous one then you will gain a little from moving from one package to another. I mean that if you "draw" the schedules then it does not matter much what "planning software" to use. Any experienced planner will learn the new software in a month or even faster if to use the same planning approaches.
If you use the software to optimize project (program, portfolio) performance then having better tool will help to save a fortune. You will get better schedules, you will be able better simulate real resource performance, to optimize and better control project costs, etc. In this case you will not try to save money on training your planners.
If the software suggests the same features it has no chances to be accepted. If new features are attractive to business owners and top managers then some of them will try and will get competitive advantages in their business. Easy to Use and Easy to Learn is for mass market, for drawers, and large corporations where the decisions are made not by Planners and Managers but by IT managers who want to make their work easier. For them it is easy and safe to suggest something that is used by their neughbors.
The market for advanced software is limited but most interesting.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

Obsolete but it serve for the purpose.