Is it really necessary to learn P3ec in lieu of P3 3.1?

Hi Bill,

I go with your idea.

I have already more than 20 years experience and at my age it is very hard for me to master new planning software. As the saying goes "It is very hard to teach an old dog a new tricks.

I can only learn basic knowledge in any new development with regards to planning tools, but to master the latest software much more develope program, is too much for me.

I do inspire the new generation to pursue whatever available in their prime for as long it will help them become "Simply is the Best".

Cheers

Gentlemen,
You had better get used to the fact that P3 version 3.1 will not be supported for ever. With the current development of hardware with 64-bit architecture, your stubborn insistance on staying with 16-bit compliant software (P3) will put you at a disadvantage with regards to speed and complexity of calculations. Are you really going to stick with the same tired old computer and software. Imagine trying to get by today with an AT or XT computer and the software available to run on them. As for not teaching old dogs new tricks, that’s bunkum. If you stop learning you might as well give it away. I have been in this game for over thirty years and I thrive on learning new software or planning techniques and tricks of the trade. In fact I consider the day wasted if I haven’t learned something new.
Kind Regards
Paul Silver

Is 64 bit technology the only advantage I can have if I use P3ec? Is that all?

Se

Guys,

I just attended P3e training 2 days ago. It seems Primavera has abundant the P3 3.1 development. No R&D for the past few years. Primavera has diverted their core business to P3e.

Although Primavera sell P3 3.1 to P3 users but they are not supporting this software fully and their main concentration is on P3e. Be prepared to learn and master the new software.

Regards.

Hi Paul,

In my younger days, i did saw a lot of old folks tyring hard to master P3 and Microsoft Project. I really feel sorry for them because it was very futile. They were no match to my skills.

Microsoft project or other planning software including the latest that will be comming in the market are planning tools. An they will remain a planning tools.

The fundamenal problem with any latest version of planning tools is the cost of acquiring them including maintenance. Only few planning engineers have the opportunity to master all the software available in the market.

The project im working use P3, so, why the give a damm in mastering P3 ec.

In my personal opinion, related to my work, it is not necessary to learn P3 ec. At the present moment, I will remain loyal to P3.

Cheers to all PP

Sometimes people and management overgrows the software that is used, they want to use functions and data that are not supported by their software. Then they start to look around for better solution.
If everybody is happy with the software that is used then there is not a reason to look around.
From the other hand without looking around you may miss some opportunities for better project planning.
It does not make sense to change one software to another that is not better but it makes sense to look around just to be sure that the tool that you use is really the best.

As a long time user of P3 (15 yrs+),and previously Artemis 7000 & OpenPlan), I have had to adapt to using P3e.

Long time ago, I has to learn P3, now I have had to learn P3e. Doesnt alter good practice.

P3e isnt that bad, give it a chance. The advantages over P3 are in the "Enterprise", where projects are competing for the same resources. Graphics and reports are still poor (as is P3), but hopefully will improve with time.

"If you learn something new, the day has not been wasted"

I concur with Steven,

Initially you will have some trouble finding your way around in P3e, but after a while you’ll love it.

It is a very robust application that you can rely on when you’re in the trenches (just as P3, I know). The user interface is very consistent, that documentation is excellent, and the application architecture is rock solid.

Any professional scheduler who understands P3 will learn P3e in a matter of days. No need to make a big fuzz about it and you’ll learn so new stuff too!

Cheers,

Niek.

Hi guys,

Learning P3ec is not the issue here. Is it really necessary to learn it is the issue. I could learn artemis, open plan, spider etc. in lieu of P3 3.1 if the review of these softwares are better than P3ec. It’s only from users that we would know which softwares are better than the others.

But naturally for P3 users, they will shift to a new Primavera product because somehow they’re already used to its features more or less. But if the only main advantage that you will get by using P3ec is the so called 64 bit technology and because you are forced to use it because Primavera is not supporting 3.1 anymore, I don’t think it’s enough reason for me to change horses.

I know there are some added features in P3ec, but I think those are just nice to have features. Planners can live without it. I hope I’m wrong.

Just my opinion.

Se

Sigfredo

It is not only because of 16bit (P3) technology to 32bit(P3e) technology. It is a lot more... however some of the advantages are not benefit scheduler/planner but rather the business and these benefits to the business actually created difficulty to the scheduler

Let me explain - one of the biggest advantages to use an enterprise is to share the same platform, using the same coding structure, resource structure, and reporting structure. However, in the good old days in P3, us (scheduler/planner) love to tailor made our own layout, sequence of activity, schedule methodology, coding structure, reporting structure. In those days we are only responsible for a group of projects within the organisation. This structure made the master scheduler and management job very difficult... try to combine all different structure and run an company report is almost impossible (at lease it will take a long process & lot of effort) Therefore, regular reporting become a Hugh task. In addition, trying to analysis the business as a whole ... I been to that position where I develop a schedule well suited the project condition, but because the client require certain way to code and resource the schedule I have to give way (Partly) by having a second schedule....

Yes having an enterprise system caused a lot of additional work where the scheduler may not see the benefits. Like us asking the supervisor fill in the day labour return and progress report. For them they completed their task why asking them to fill in all these forms... If we stuck with the old system, we are just like a stubborn supervisor would not fill in a progress report.

In P3e, a lot of the features are in this similar situation so that’s why P3e had so many opposition coming from the scheduler but lots of support from senior management.

HTH

Alex

You know I’m not a close minded person. I still give P3ec the benefit of the doubt that it is still better than 3.1.

could you explain further your statement that "Let me explain - one of the biggest advantages to use an enterprise is to share the same platform, using the same coding structure, resource structure, and reporting structure."

I really can not understand why P3ec is better in this respect.

I think most of the things you mentioned is also doable in 3.1 even though there may be some differences on how and easeness to do it using P3ec and 3.1. But the point is, it’s doable in 3.1. Please enlighten me further.

Se

Hi to all,

Refer to the issue "Is it necessary to learn?". My answer is Yes it is necessary to learn.

In the context of planning, an individual must be considerate with the working environment, comppany policy, etc. For example, the company’s planning department used P3 planning software. One planner desire to learn and eventually master other sophisticated planning software P3ec or spider, etc.

What will become of that planner in the company? If you are the planner, what will become of you? What are you going to do with what you learn, now that only you know and mastered sophisticated planning software while other planners are still struggling with the old software.

I think this will answer the question?

I was in this position when I worked in Malaysia and I know what it means.

Why dont you make the decision (To LEARN OR NOT TO LEARN) and experience what it means in your life. Remember, Experience is the best Teacher.

BIG CHEERS TO ALL.

Bill

"P3 3.1 IS HERE TO STAY AND IS THE BACKBONE OF PRIMAVERA"

Sorry but this is just plain wrong. P3 3.1 is as good as dead. Primavera will not support it on a 64bit OS. Primavera are no longer developing it. Primavera are pushing and developing P3e. That’s their future not P3 3.1.

Oh P3 3.1 will hang on for a few years yet but the end is nigh.

FWIW I use both P3 3.1 and P3e 4.1. There are things I dislike and like about each product. I haven’t yet seen 5.0 but from what I hear it’s another nail in P3 3.1’s coffin.

Regards

Bill

Yeah I heard it back then too and didn’t believe it at the time. It was too early back then but times move on and 5 years is a lonnnnnnnng time in IT.

Look at Primavera’s website - P3e is what is being pushed. OS developments by MS will dictate how we go. In a few years 64bit will dominate and corporate IT will force updates. There will be no Primavera support for P3 3.1 running on 64 bit OS. I believe that Primavera have already made that announcement. P3e will be the future of Primavera. It’s enterprise management not just a scheduling tool and that’s where the big bucks are. My hunch FWIW is that in medium to long term P3e will be a SAP equivalent. I reserve the right to completely change my mind about that though! ;-)

In any event P3e really isn’t that bad a tool. It has it’s weak points but so does P3 3.1. Remember earlier versions of P3?

I migrated to P3e in the last year. I found it fairly straightforward to learn. I doubt you’ll have any problems.

Regards

May god bless Long life to Bill

Bill

Does that include old planners too?

FWIW I’m sure 3.1 has a few years left in it yet just not too many.

Regards

Hi guys,


P3 planners who opted to use P3ec were forced to learn it because it’s the latest product from the no. 1 supplier of Project Management software. It’s natural for 3.1 users to learn the latest Primavera products. It’s not because it is a better software. Am i right? Now those who know P3ec would of course would stick and defend it because they already spent months learning it and knowing its bugs and by the way it’s good to show it in your resume.

The issue of Primavera not supporting 3.1 is beside the point. The main topic is if P3ec is worth learning in lieu of 3.1. I’ll just wait for the review of P3 5.0 before jumping to a new horse if it’s worth it but definitely not the horse called P3ec. Unless someone can convince that it is really worth my time. This is already post no. 23, and until now the only reason I got from this thread is that P3ec is 64 bit technology and Primavera is not supporting 3.1 anymore. I’ll repeat my question, is that all?

Se

Se

I am not agreed with you. Firstly "P3 planners who opted to use P3ec were forced to learn it because it’s the latest product from the no. 1 supplier of Project Management software. It’s natural for 3.1 users to learn the latest Primavera products. It’s not because it is better software. Am I right?"
Wrong! Like everything in life you have to actually use the system before you can make a conclusion. I believe that there are too many Old schedulers that who is not going to give up the pride to accept a better product. P3e has a very different operation scheme from P3 that why scheduler don’t like it. However, it is a far better product in terms of flexibility to integrate, security control, Enterprise Management, Portfolio Management.

"Now those who know P3ec would of course would stick and defend it because they already spent months learning it and knowing its bugs and by the way it’s good to show it in your resume." Not really, not because I learn P3e so that I am pro P3e but because I see its potentials of helping the organisation manage not only projects, but program and portfolio. If you what to know the latest development of 3 P (Project Program Portfolio) just have a look @ PMI site. There are many examples that show the important of Portfolio Management as well as Project Management. If you don’t want to upgrade and improve yourself, well, good on you. But the rest of us are moving up.

"The issue of Primavera not supporting 3.1 is beside the point. The main topic is if P3ec is worth learning in lieu of 3.1. I’ll just wait for the review of P3 5.0 before jumping to a new horse if it’s worth it but definitely not the horse called P3ec. Unless someone can convince that it is really worth my time. This is already post no. 23, and until now the only reason I got from this thread is that P3ec is 64 bit technology and Primavera is not supporting 3.1 anymore. I’ll repeat my question, is that all?"

No that’s not all, listen in the post and you see what I mentioned before, managing resource @ a enterprise level, managing Portfolio, and program, Analysis, Integration with corporate system, more level of security control, timesheet, web login and update, process follow control, weighted steps, ability to have unlimited code, structured code, faster, apply methodology, resource management, risk management, project documents sharing.... I can keep going with the list however, I think this is enough. Yes it is only a tool, I agree with Bill, but you need the right tool for the right job. No double that P3 is an excellent tool for a single large scale projects or a number of projects. However, if you talking about a big organisation you need a tool set to help you manage not only project but also program and portfolio. Like using a hammer to build a house is not enough.

My only comments about P3e is, if your organisation is only a small firm that only have few major projects, I would suggest that don’t invest too much effort to incorporate P3e in the organisation. For planner in a small firm, of course if you want to move on to a bigger role and bigger firm and higher pay. Then, take the effort to learn how to drive P3e.
If you are in a big firm already in a high profile role, then you have to consider whether you want to be the one introduce a bigger better system to the organisation or your successor introduce that system...
If you are a small potato in a big firm, then you want to be the one who introduce to the senior management to take over those old and stubborn scheduler that just don’t want to move on.

Bill, to answer some of your comments
No 1. Report is so important without management information (Reports) how can you make a management decision? You can stay in your box tinging the project is great without knowing other projects actually make the company feel. Are we planner who love to stay in our little box without know the rest of the world, if it is good luck.

No. 2 Pay
P3e planner is now demanded everywhere because of all the corporate changes Enterprise Management and Portfolio. Yes if you convert now you will have an advantage if not you just have to find a company still running a 486 machine with windows 98 to run your P3 in the near future. And the pay for P3e planner is on the rise ... demand and supply

No. 3 Backbone
Yes P3 is the foundation of Primavera, it is a great product, but doesn’t mean that we have to stick with it forever. Copper wire communication is the biggest invention in telecommunication it is the backbone of the industry. However, is the telephone company stick with the system or move it to fibre optic cable?? Yes it is the backbone but yet we have to accept technology change as well.

Said too much already Good luck! Hope we all find the best tools for do the job.

Alex

Hi Alex,

It’s not that I don’t want to upgrade, actually I have P3ec in my machine. this is the reason why I’m very critical with P3ec.

Portfolio management, enterprise management, integration hoaah very farout. So what if I don’t do all of this using P3ec and I do it in another way but using 3.1 in conjunction with other softwares. big deal. Those are just "hiffaluting" terms and companies are already doing it in their own way without P3ec. Don’t assume that only P3ec can do this.

Don’t assume if you use P3ec that you are going up. I don’t think so. I’ve seen it already, it’s not a big deal.

Se

Se

Alex,
you know that P3e is another PM program that have little common with P3 (except Gantt Chart look).
It has advantages, it has weak points.
Deciding migrating from P3 to another product why to consider only P3e?
Being P3 user I’ll try to create a list of what I want to see in my new PM software and then will try to investigate the market not restricting myself by any single product.
So it would be interesting to open new discussion not in P3e section - 1) what shall be included in this list, 2) which products support the necessary features.
This way the choice will be reasonable and not forced.
Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

Agree with you that P3e is not the noly solution for enterprise management, portfolio management...

I am only point out that P3e can lead to portfolio management. Can or cannot at the end of the day its only a tool. The person driving it is more important.

Cheers

Alex

Sigfredo

As I said, you have to make your own choice. If you can do all your management with P3 why change. I am not a P3e seller, I only stated P3e can do these task. Yes there are million software can do the task thats why we have planner using Excel to generate project schedule.

If Excel suit the purposes, fine Excel is your tool. Having said that if better technology comes along, why not give it a go?? P3e is not only ERM tools, or scheduling tools. However, when you ask what is the advantage (additional functions) P3e can provide. I am stated only fact. If you dont like fact... that’s fine with me.

Also we are the driver, software is only a tools. A copy of P3e sitting in your desk does not mean you know how to drive it. I suppose someone just drop the shit on your desk and expect you know how to use it. Some tools we can learn it as its go, some cannot. I guess P3e is a later tool.

Alex

Hi Bill,

Everyone have their choice, cant agree more

From what I can obsereve from different user groups, in the traditional construction project industries, building, roads, large infrastructure. It is very hard to adopt to a new system, simply because the way it is always manage its projects in their silo. It have pros and cons.I am not try to judge whether it is better to go enterprise or not.

I can see benefits in organisation which do not, or have very limited use of any planning system that gain substaintial advantage after rollout a enterprise system. However the bad news is, study shows about 30% of these system rollout fail to deliver.Like managing a project, it is not the product but its the user, the project manager, the culture, ...

What fraustrate me is not because of acceptance of a tool but rather the enterprise concept. Tool yes you can use any tools to do the job, however the concept of Enterprise Management and Portfolio Management is a no brain-er. Standardise reporting, WBS, Resource Management, benefits the organisation, but because of personal comfort zone, political agenda, loss of control, human nature, that drive the organisation in to stand still mode.

I can not see the reason why, may be I am too scientific and only able to weight the pros and cons for the organisation rather than my own.

Cheers,

Alex

Hi all,

before i say my parting words I would like to say the following.

1. It’s not only excel or other Microsoft products wherein you can interface 3.1. There is what you call interface products/services which interprets one different platform to another in order for the two different platforms to talk to each other.
2. Alex, I’m just comparing two things P3 3.1 and P3ec, based on what I know. I have been using both softwares and you know already where I stand between the two. You can say otherwise if you think what i said was wrong.

Thanks to everybody who participated in this thread because it was really worth talking to you guys. I would like to think that we made the discussion in a very direct but cordial way even if we have disagreements.

Cheers and ciao,

Se

Hello to all,

LEND ME YOUR EARS.

This thread is informative. Im open to all possibilities and to where my faith will lead me. All of us will cross our Rubicon. And what we learn here in PP may guide us in our decision.

One thing for sure, the planning software today will not be the planning software for tomorrow. How we face it will ge guided by our experience and our belief.

I thank you all and I will respect whatever we decide for our future. May we continue to share whatever we can share for the present planners and for the future planners

Adious Amigoes

Charlie

Dear planners

Hopefully I did not offended anyone! I am only trying to get a message across that P3e can do certain things that P3 cant, yes P3 is great but it have its limitations, there is no software in the world can do everything There is another thread discussed this topic already.

My point is, P3e can do 95% of what P3 can offer (with a slightly different operational commands) and plus more. The plus more bit is what make the product have its market. The plus may or may not fit everyone needs. Some do some don’t. I do want other planner understand there are plus in P3e. Features we dont use, dont mean it is not important.

From what I see from the forum is, we tend to ignore the plus and focus on the minus. I do want a fare judgement on a product. Because P3e can help me to do my job faster and easier. (BTW is not because of 32bit or 64bit techonology)

All the best PPs

Alex

Se

I dont want to be critical but this is your original post

"I’m posting again this issue because until now it’s not clear or may I say I’m not convinced that it is necessary to change from P3 3.1 platform to P3ec platform. Now Primavera has launched a new product Primavera 5.0. What I strongly believe is for Primavera to improve 3.1 but on the same platform. Of course P3ec enthusiast will definitely bring up the topic about 64bit technology. So what if 3.1 is only 32 bit technology? As planners, can’t we do our work if the platform is 32 bit technology only? I believe planners can do their job effectively in a 32 bit technology so why do we need to change it?

Are we being hostaged here to learn new things even if it is not necessary?

For those who knows about 64 bit and 32 bit technology, kindly educate us on this.

Just asking.

Se"

Firstly, try to correct you in terms of 16 32 64 bit
Hope you are in listening mode

P3 is a 16bit program written in 4GL database
in a simple English it is same class as DB-IV it is not a relational database. All you see is a string of characters.
That is why you can only have 64 character activity code

P3e or Teamplay or P3e/c they are exactly the same product with a slightly different outlook. They are 32 bit program with a SQL or Oracle database platform.
Because it is programmed on a latest database platform therefore it provide some of the functions that you cannot have in P3.

Why Primavera stop develop P3 - they are not able to further develop under the existing platform Simple things like additional activity code which we planner always dream of in P3. No this just not possible to provide our (PPs) need. OK how about build new, development cost is hugh and the exact same reaction will happen just like what you did. Therefore they selected a product line and enhance it to match P3.

When did they reach 95% of like to like - version 5

Yes you can still do your job in P3, the software market is a very completitive market and if they stand still other will take over. Enterprise management, total project management solution is the trend at the time thats why they developed a system focus on things that P3 cannot do and planners and managers are asking for. Of course they cannot deliver everything one go.

In PMBOK nine area P3 cover Time Cost Resource
P3e have Time Cost Resource Risk Communication and most importantly Integration.

That is all the fact

HTH to make your decision,

Alex

Hello Alex

That is a very good revelation. I love that, SQL and oracle platform. There must be something great in this program P3ec in the way the program handled database.

I will decide someday if I reach my Rubicon (hopefully it will lead to the glory that was Rome).

Cheers,

Charlie

Absolutely spot on Alex!

And if I may add my two cents:

First of all, if you move from P3 to P3e, you’ll be moving from one great Primavera product to another. It is not like you’re suddenly forced to work with MickeySoft Project 2003 that breaks down if you try to do something beyond drawing Gantt charts.

P3e “speaks” the same project scheduling language and breathes the same fundamental understanding of scheduling issues as P3. If there is one company that understands the gap between these two products it’s Primavera, all the way up to Dick Faris and Joel Koppelman; don’t worry, I’ve met both of them and they are schedulers in heart and soul who really understand the value of their products.

If you follow the development if P3e over the years, like I have, you will notice that with each release, the gap between P3 and P3e is narrowing. With the introduction of P3e 5.0 almost all P3 features are available now but along with that it is surpassing P3 in any other (new) area. (Scope management, Risk management, Communications management, Cost management, Resource management, and Project integration mgt.)

Many companies are using P3e/TeamPlay in configurations where thousands of users are tracking time against project activities in one single Oracle project database. Thousands of projects are consolidated on a weekly basis and the level of control is just immense; companies have saved millions by deploying it. There is not a shred of doubt that this product will eventually replace what is out there and you’ll not be sorry that you’ve learned how to master it.

Cheers,

Niek.

Thanks Niek and Alex,

The whole ballgame changed because of the SQL and Oracle database engine for P3ec while DB-IV database for P3.

Maybe I’m old workhorse (20 years experience only) but there are trigger mechanisms in me that make me young again and make me move like stallion. That will be easy for me to catch up with you guys with regards to P3ec skills the moment I reach my Rubicon.

Thanks to all and …

Cheers

Hi,

I would like to add few more points to this:

1. EPS
2. Security (Who can do what on Project)

Primavera would like to move from a mere scheduling tool to complete suite of Project Management tool.

As previous posts mentioned, gap between P3 and P3e is narrow down to great extent.

I would like to touch Security Profiles also an important aspect when many engineers are using the same tool and working for a different proejct or same project. Becuase of the user profile definition, we can have a greater control of the Primavera data.

Because of this profile definition, it will bring greater sense of displine of who can control what data. Not everybody able to do whatever they want.

Everybody role can be defined well to handle Primavera data. For eg. with Proper approval only resources can be assigned other than agreed one.

Because somebody will add or delte resources etc. without the knowledge of others. This will help to bring greater degree of dicipline.

We have been using 6 types of User Profiles in Project. This is not possible in P3.

Whenever company is implementing P3e, It requires a strong Change Management Team. Like anything, new changes always face a resistant from the users. (ERP is the best example).

P3e is much much more than P3. Instead of living in the past glory of P3, it is a time to move on.

Primavera will make available 100% P3 features in a year.

all the best.

Sudharsan

Hi,

One more posting from my side.

YES YOU MUST START LEARN AND MOVE TO NEW PRIMAVERA ENTERPRISE

What I am going to say is not new. It is more on my personal experience.

I have been working for an Oil and Gas Industry. We are using P3e for Shutdown Projects. It is highly resource intensive and need to complete in Time. More than cost, time is a very critical factor. So tool of Primavera caliber is a must for the same. We have been using P3e for the past 4 years. Last 3 years it has been very successful and nobody is thinking of using P3 or Artemis in lieu of P3e.

The acceptance of Primavera Enterprise in an Organization will be boiled down to an adaptability and strong management Support. Of course more users, more trouble in convincing. I took one big Project to prove that P3e is better, of course with management support. Even though users always compared with P3, due to Management strong support, we able to prove P3e and now nobody think of P3. When some new Planning Engineers joined with P3 experience, they started the same story how P3e is bad, our engineers are laughing and telling we also told the same story 3 years before that time P3e was not having this much features.

Oil and Gas also an old economy industry like Contruction etc. They have been doing these kinds of Projects for years. Before we have shifted to P3e 4 years before, we were using P3 3.1 / Artemis. First one year, it was a very painful period of using P3e due to missing features of P3 and other reason was Change Management.

I firmly bet on Primavera that it would come up with a good improvement in every new Product release and listen to customer requirement. Yes Primavera did it. From P3e 2.0 to P3e 3.0 is a good improvement and the trend continues. Due to its strong Customer support and continuous product development enable us to get support from Top management for continuous P3e product upgrade.

Due to P3e the same Project, now we able to handle far better due to its features. No doubt that it is a best tool for a bigger project, multi-user Environment.

Our project is having more than 45,000 activities with 10 users. Due to P3e, we able to add lot of intelligence to the data (more activity codes, Project Code, Resource code, Custom field like indicators). It totally turned down the way we able to see the project data which we handled in the past. It brings different dimension to the same Project.

We divided our project into 10 Projects under different Project node in an EPS. If I would like to analyze, it gives a greater flexibility. It is flawless in handling huge data.

Portfolio Management is a great boon for our Project. It is very handy for viewing Project at a very high level.

Since we have already implemented SAP and running well for more than 3 years and we able bring same kind of discipline for P3e also. It is able to address the user and their access to project, type of application (P3e or Timesheet), User Profile definition (P3e they have added Security Profile), Admin Categories, Preferences, OBS. These all helped to have a greater control on Primavera data. Everybody knows what they can do in Primavera data. They can’t play around and not able to cross their limits.

Primavera Mobile Management: We have introduced Mobile Manager for activity status update. Initially it has resistant later engineers started enjoying. But we couldn’t continue to use the same due to Mobile Manager Product short comings. I bet Primavera will come up with a better product in P3e 5.0. Use it to believe the power of it.

I can keep telling so many things. But I don’t want to bore you much.

Believe P3e has more advantages compared to P3 31. Everybody will agree on that. Yes, it takes time to adjust to P3e from P3 3.1. You will reap the benefits.

All the best.

Regards,

Sudharsan

Sudharsan

Glad to see someone enjoy the P3e experiences as well as the benefits. Finally I dont feel alone anymore.

Keep up the good work. BTW we also integrate P3e with SAP as well. We may need to share some experiences in terms of how to handle the change management in a big organisation.

All the best

Alex

Sudharsan,

Read your posting on P3e features and the way you guys are using it.

I cannot agree with you that p3e has more features than p3 ? Please detail these if you can.

I have been using p3e with more than 20 projects but feels that it is still behind on p3 in different ways.

ex. The Layout concept,in P3 the layout is Project based while in P3e it is database based.This is of now use specially if you have lot of projects and interface XER files with subcontractors.

The filter and data field in columns in P3e is less comparing p3.for ex. There is less field in p3e that i can show related to Baseline (Target).

Filter:p3e states that it is strong on WBS,good point.Say if you want to make a filter to exclude one wbs "WBS not under XYZ" you dont have an criteria for not under.

It is weak on graphic reports,specially cost/resource/cost account.

I would like you to assign multiple resources/cost account and use organize (group/sort) by resource or cost account and watch what it does and also look at what p3 can do ?

In fact it does not have resource profile for cost accounts.Then what is the fun in assigning cost accounts.

Can you do a Master Project /Sub project hierarchy in p3e -- no.They have EPS concept,but they are just graphical,it does not consider EPS as a Master Project simple because you cannot have a seperate Constraint and Parameters.

There are tons of features that p3e cannot still do which primavera is trying to incluse in each upgrade,but it might take another 3-4 years.

thanks,

Rajeev

Rajeev,

I think you missing the point, like anybody else who is trying to compare an enterprise project management information system (P3e) with one of the best scheduling tools available (P3).

Yes you are right, there are points which are easier done in P3 and not as elegant in P3e. But that’s an exercise in futility because you are comparing a car from the early 80’s with a jet airline from the late 90’s.

I don’t see P3 gathering 10,000 time sheets on a weekly basis and push that data into multiple SAP instances, and that’s where the comparison ends for many large companies.

Both products are very good in their own right and the "spoiled" P3 users will have to wait a few releases until one module out of an entire enterprise PM suite can do the same as P3, in slightly different way.

Time is on my side I’m afraid...

Rajeev

Try to answer some of your questions: Again I have to state that P3e do have a different way of presenting data so bare with me in my explaination

"ex. The Layout concept,in P3 the layout is Project based while in P3e it is database based.This is of now use specially if you have lot of projects and interface XER files with subcontractors."

** Yes P3e is still have layout at project level but only different is now P3e is one big projects instead of lots of individual projects. In addition, you can share layout with others, and define global and local user layout is already a outstanding function compare to P3.


"The filter and data field in columns in P3e is less comparing p3.for ex. There is less field in p3e that i can show related to Baseline (Target)."

**I love the new filter in P3e, it not only give you more control and layers of filters it also again easier to share the filter with others. I am not sure which field you what to filter in the BL schedule let me know I may be able to help.

Filter:p3e states that it is strong on WBS,good point.Say if you want to make a filter to exclude one wbs "WBS not under XYZ" you dont have an criteria for not under.

** Agree, but can P3 do it??


It is weak on graphic reports,specially cost/resource/cost account.

I would like you to assign multiple resources/cost account and use organize (group/sort) by resource or cost account and watch what it does and also look at what p3 can do ?

** I think you can achieve the same result in the assignments view by cost account

In fact it does not have resource profile for cost accounts.Then what is the fun in assigning cost accounts.

** This one have to work around using resource code and stack histogram - again it is a differernt concepts

Can you do a Master Project /Sub project hierarchy in p3e -- no.They have EPS concept,but they are just graphical,it does not consider EPS as a Master Project simple because you cannot have a seperate Constraint and Parameters.

** I am not sure what you try to achieve yes EPS is already a Master Sub project herarchy. I dont understand what you mean by Graphical. It is not only graphical but also a roll out + Drill down. It is a differert concepts from P3, because in P3e you dont need to locate your different files in different place. Its all under one roof.

There are tons of features that p3e cannot still do which primavera is trying to incluse in each upgrade,but it might take another 3-4 years.

** I can not claim myself to be a expert in both P3 and P3e. But I do think I know enough to give some advice how to achieve function in both product. If you can perform something in P3, it is 99% you can do it in P3e. However, if you can do something in P3e, no garrenty that you can achieve the same outcome in P3

Rajeev, please P3e is more powerful than P3 that is why it require a higher skill to drive the product. I mean administration skill not @ user level. As a master planner, my job is to utilise the full potential of the system and give guidelines of how to use the system.

Good luck to explore the full potential of the system. You will love it,and one day you will find P3 is too difficult to use.

Cheers

Alex

Wang,

Thanks for the input.

Let me clarify my postion.The concept of layout for the database is tedious when you handle lot of projects and when you are the main project controls.

As you know each layout is formated with its own fileter,grouping,columns and print setup.So how can we have common layout for projects.As i open project in p3e/c it opens the last layout opened,this might have been created for some other projects and will not be any use for the current project.So you are forced to save layout for each project.

Then if i receive an XER file it does not come with the layout created by the schedule who did the schedule.So i am forced to create the layout once i import it.

p3 has a lot of criteria for filtering say WBS code.Field required to be inserted through column functions has very less compared to P3.

I hope you agree that p3e do not organize properly if you assign multiple resources/cost account on an activity.It is simply because in p3e the same activity cannot be repeated.How is this a poweful database if it cannot have many to many relationship.

The cost account is a concept used in the whole project managment including PMI now why use Resource code ?

EPS is simple grpahical because as master project it is not designed as a Project. For ex. you can have a constraint for Master Project,can you assign a finish constraint for your EPS.

I am scheduling a Refinery construction which is planned as master to Subproject in P3,where i have individual constriants for each subproject and a final constrained for the whole construction itself at master project,how do you do this in your p3e which is said for big project.

thanks,

Rajeev

Hi Rajeev,

Let me try to answer for your questions.

Layout: Yes, it is an issue. It is not like P3. But we have indirect way to solve it by export / import options.

Cost Account: You can very well assign multiple resources and cost account to an activity. You can Group and sort by Resource/cost account in Resource Assignment view. Here you it will repeat the same activity multiple time. So kindly check the same by viewing Resource Assignment view.

Filter: For eg. WBS code you mentioned. It is possible in P3e. I can’t understand what is the difference (significance) in using WBS code instead of WBS ? Even if you choose WBS code, when you click value, it displays WBS Code and Value to choose. It is also having filter condition of is under, equal to, not equal to.

Could you please explain me to understand the usage of WBS Code and WBS in the filter?

Master / Sub-Project: It is possible more than what you are looking for.

In P3e as you are aware it is designed as EPS / Project (each database can have different EPS / Projects). EPS has hierarchy and Projects are created under EPS nodes depending upon the requirement.

You can create a Master Project under one EPS and various other sub-projects (eg. Civil, Structural Steel, Piping etc) in one level down EPS. If you want to give constraint for each project, you are free to assign the same. If you would like to link one project to another (one project activity relationship to another Project), you open the projects required to link and give the relationship. (Similar to interproject relationship). When you click predecessor or successor for assignment (you can group the pre/succ activity by Project, WBS hierarchy, EPS etc.), so you are able to link the activity very easily and no confusion due to its group/sorting. It has further options for easy assignment.

In P3, if you open Master Project, it will open the sub projects also. You can not open any two sub-projects at a time (if Master project and 4 sub project scenario)

But in P3e, you can choose the project(s) which you would like to open. To ease the operation, you can define you own Project Portfolios option. For eg. If your organisation is having 10 Projects but you are using only 5, you can create your own Portfolio and name it. Then open your portfolio, it will display your projects. You can click at higher level to open the entire project or select the required project to open. Moreover, you can open any number of project say, Civil, or Civil + Steel or Civil + Piping. Any combination of Project opening is possible. It is not possible in P3.

So it is more flexible than P3.

As I mentioned earlier posting, it has more features for eg. RBS, OBS, Top down estimation, Portfolio etc. These are very helpful to handle the project better.
Just tell me the time to open a Project with 5000 activities in P3 and P3e. You will feel painful if you are used handle the same in P3e. It opens our 10 Projects (together 50,000+ activities) easily.

Hope I answered some of your questions.

Sudharsan

Hi Niek,

I took notice of your emphasis on "10,000 time sheet on a weekly basis". The planning manual I got made a point that planners are not time keepers.

I really have not seen P3e/c, but i have no plans of encoding 10,000 time sheet on a weekly basis. Or, I really dont want to be a timekeeper.

I’m do aware that as planner I need to capture the actual manhours allocated to complete per activitiy. I’m doing this in MS Access and MS Excel.

I read a little about P3e/c and I notice it need a lot of additional software to run P3e/c. It may marginalize the planning engineers working in medium or small contruction company. Or in other word, P3e/c maybe only applicable to big company willing to make financial investment in P3e/c.

Please correct me if im wrong.

cheeers.

charlie

Rajeev,

I think a few things you mentioned in your post is incorrect. I am only try to help here. Please dont take me wrong. I do want to have the right answer for everything.

"Let me clarify my postion.The concept of layout for the database is tedious when you handle lot of projects and when you are the main project controls.

As you know each layout is formated with its own fileter,grouping,columns and print setup.So how can we have common layout for projects.As i open project in p3e/c it opens the last layout opened,this might have been created for some other projects and will not be any use for the current project.So you are forced to save layout for each project."

OK in P3 you create a layout for each project right?? You can do the same in P3e right?? You can load the project layout right??... So what is the different?? My suggestion is you create a layout name for every project that you have and save them for later use. ... I cannot see the logic??

"Then if I receive an XER file it does not come with the layout created by the schedule who did the schedule.So i am forced to create the layout once i import it."

OK you received a project from P3 from your contractor, how often they follow the same code structure you specified. And when you merge them together you have to have a standard layout ie AREA PHASE TRADE ... P3e different is your standard layout is already in your database. And if xer file do have a specific layout you can import and export it... what is the different, you dont need to create it from scratch...

"p3 has a lot of criteria for filtering say WBS code.Field required to be inserted through column functions has very less compared to P3."

I should comment that P3 did have a lot of field cannot run filter - And the works around for P3 scheduler is to use export and import to find the activity they want ... I dont see the logic P3e have less ... Please let me know exactly what field in P3e you cannot filter.


I hope you agree that p3e do not organize properly if you assign multiple resources/cost account on an activity.It is simply because in p3e the same activity cannot be repeated. How is this poweful database if it cannot have many to many relationship.

Please clarify!! You can assign the same resource twice in the same activity. And in planning world each activity have to be unique... what you mean by two activities which is exactly the same ?? what do you mean by same activity cannot be repeated. Both P3 and P3e is not allow to have a duplicated ID??

The cost account is a concept used in the whole project managment including PMI now why use Resource code ?

Understand Cost Account - It is only a name... resource code, activity code, wbs as long as it did the job personally I dont care what is it call.

EPS is simple grpahical because as master project it is not designed as a Project. For ex. you can have a constraint for Master Project,can you assign a finish constraint for your EPS.

EPS is not a project is just a structure. You can still create two projects and interlink them??

Anyway, that is what I mean, the biggest disadvantage of P3e is ... its power ... the learning curve is
Compare to
MSP which you can build a plan right away
P3 require some level of training
P3e require intensive training before you can setup P3e as a corporate tools

All the best

Alex

Hi Rajeev,

Let me try to answer for your questions.

Layout: Yes, it is an issue. It is not like P3. But we have indirect way to solve it by export / import options.

Cost Account: You can very well assign multiple resources and cost account to an activity. You can Group and sort by Resource/cost account in Resource Assignment view. Here you it will repeat the same activity multiple time. So kindly check the same by viewing Resource Assignment view.

Filter: For eg. WBS code you mentioned. It is possible in P3e. I can’t understand what is the difference (significance) in using WBS code instead of WBS ? Even if you choose WBS code, when you click value, it displays WBS Code and Value to choose. It is also having filter condition of is under, equal to, not equal to.

Could you please explain me to understand the usage of WBS Code and WBS in the filter?

Master / Sub-Project: It is possible more than what you are looking for.

In P3e as you are aware it is designed as EPS / Project (each database can have different EPS / Projects). EPS has hierarchy and Projects are created under EPS nodes depending upon the requirement.

You can create a Master Project under one EPS and various other sub-projects (eg. Civil, Structural Steel, Piping etc) in one level down EPS. If you want to give constraint for each project, you are free to assign the same. If you would like to link one project to another (one project activity relationship to another Project), you open the projects required to link and give the relationship. (Similar to interproject relationship). When you click predecessor or successor for assignment (you can group the pre/succ activity by Project, WBS hierarchy, EPS etc.), so you are able to link the activity very easily and no confusion due to its group/sorting. It has further options for easy assignment.

In P3, if you open Master Project, it will open the sub projects also. You can not open any two sub-projects at a time (if Master project and 4 sub project scenario)

But in P3e, you can choose the project(s) which you would like to open. To ease the operation, you can define you own Project Portfolios option. For eg. If your organisation is having 10 Projects but you are using only 5, you can create your own Portfolio and name it. Then open your portfolio, it will display your projects. You can click at higher level to open the entire project or select the required project to open. Moreover, you can open any number of project say, Civil, or Civil + Steel or Civil + Piping. Any combination of Project opening is possible. It is not possible in P3.

So it is more flexible than P3.

As I mentioned earlier posting, it has more features for eg. RBS, OBS, Top down estimation, Portfolio etc. These are very helpful to handle the project better.
Just tell me the time to open a Project with 5000 activities in P3 and P3e. You will feel painful if you are used handle the same in P3e. It opens our 10 Projects (together 50,000+ activities) easily.

Hope I answered some of your questions.

Hi Charlie

I think what Niek means we (planner) no longer need to tailor made MS Access adn MS Excel Database to capture time. The software already comes with ready to use time sheet function which can be integrated. That will give us (Planner) a lot more time to focus on the schedule. How long did you take to develop or modify your Access time sheet DB in each project. If I said to you that it is not necessary anymore you can get the actual $ and actual hrs updated monthly. Will it may your life easier. More time your schedule anaylsis and planning for future...

Yes and No for whether the size of the company matter?? The bigger the company the more benefits that the software can provide. Even with only one project you can still benefits from some of its packaged functions like web base update, timesheet, documents sharing, work flow approval. Again P3e is only a tool, you need a good driver to make use of a good tool to achieve a excellent result.

Cheers

Alex

Hi Charlie / Alex,

What it means, it is scalable. You can use as a standalone system and it can be used in a bigger enviornement also.

Alex, Regarding learning curuve, it is time consuming only for existing P3 user because of the feature comparison and immediately not open to P3e (most of the case, it is not any body’s mistake, it is natural).

It is very less for those first time user for P3e. They able to adapt quickly and move on.

Hi Charlie,

P3e is Scalable and Role based application.

Depending on the Organization and Project size, the role may vary. Like you mentioned in Construction Company, Planner is capturing the actual hrs.

But in Oil and Gas Shutdown, IT dept will take care of Product installation, patch update, P3e Database creation, maintance, Basic EPS / Project structure creatation, users and his profile creation, Integration etc.

After mutually agreed they will setup all codes / standards etc in P3e.

Each Planner will input in the P3e. Project Manager will have access to all Projects. Scheduler will be responisble for input as well as maintaing the Primavera data (not database), reports, daily back up of network (database backup will be done by IT).

During Project execution, various Time keeper will update the actual time taken for the activity (Paper based Timesheet filled by Engineer/ Supervisor and timekeeper will collect at the end of the day for data entry)

Once all the data entred by timekeeper, it will be approved and updated in the P3e. Then will run schedule and reports for review of the days work.

(For Project update, we tried Primavera Mobile Manager. Due ot its limitation of data handling and lack of features, we couldn’t continue to use the same. But it is a promising application. Primavera improved it in P3e 5.0. So egarly expecting the same. It will be helpful, but will burdern the Engineers for update. It is good if project is having less number of activities)

Then Primavera data will be updated in SAP ERP. (Still in development stage. Not full fledged roll out has not happened)

The Project handling / data update will vary from Project to Project and Organization to Organization.

I just try to give a overall idea only.

So standard scable application with seamless integration (with ERP) helps a lot and time saving effort. Here Primavera Enterprise comes handy.

It is having SDK and API, so developing external application is also possible. (It again depends on organization size, requirement etc) Point is, it is possible. If you are not happy with 3rd Party application, if you are capable to develop inhouse applciation, you are free to do the same.

Export to Excel is more easy now with P3e 5.0 (P3 also possible to export excel), but it is more than that. If I have to update more than 1000 equipment data in P3e. I can import the data from SAP in Excel and Export the same to P3e and update the same as and when required thro SDK.

P3e is next generation PM application. It is moved from a mere Scheduling tool to wider range of addressing the Project requirement. Since it is a role based application, Planner / Scheduler is become a part of the application.
During P3 days, Planner/ Scheduler are the only one handling Primavera. Eventhough Planner/ Scheduler is the heart of the System, still others also play a role which Planner need not carry the burdern.

Since I am not from Construction Industry, I may not aware of the concerns.

Industry like Oil&Gas, Defense, Aerospace, IT etc, requires Primavera Enterprise kind of product which is scalable, role based, open for seamless integration etc. to handle the project in a highly competitive environment.

So it is purely organization demand drives the selection of application.

Hi Sudarshan,

Find my response/clarifications.

Layout:The concept of layout based on database was to have a standard layout.How can you have a

standard layout for Projects.Forget the contents and barcharts,the layout drives your output and

hence your page setup.How can you use a layout for Project A which has only 6 months durations

and Project B which has 4 years.For a 4 year Project you would not show days/week and your

timescale is more condesed comparing a 6 month project.I have been really wasting my time going

from one layout to another for different project.This is only experienced if you are handling

more than one project or may be like 10-20 projects.Next if you are a project controls,very ofter

you create custom layout for whatif or different analysis which is Project based and cannot be

shared with other projects as criteria & specs changes project to project.
Hence i strongly beleive that this concept is really tedious or waste of time in

creating/changing layouts.



Cost Account: I agree that you can only view resource/cost account properly in Resource

Assignment view and not in normal activity layout with bar chart.Resource assignment view do not

have bar chart.Again you cannot create profile/histogram out of cost account.Have you use filter

for resource/cost account if you have multiple resource/cost account assigned ? Very funny for

ex. If i assigned Activity A with Res 1 & Res 2,you would have to filter Res = Res 1,Res 2 as

Program combines these resource same is for cost account.You dont even have a pull down list for

res or cost account in filter.

There was a comment from Wang that use Resource code,it should be noted that cost account is a

widely used field and all the other 3rd party cost or earned value program like cobra,cost

manager etc.. are all built in with cost account field

Filter: i created a Project which is cost loaded and wanted to run a cost report excluding

activties under WBS = Engineering. Now i dont have an option to do it as the Program do not have

"not under",the turn around advised by primavera is to use "is under".I have like 40 WBS,i have

to create 39 filter criteria to exclude one wbs.Please understand my sufferings.Next i define the

OBS,great feature.I assigned OBS (Responsible Manager) for my WBS’s in the Project.Now i want to

filter activities uner Reponsible Manager = XYZ, i dont have this facility.What is the fun in

assigning unlimited stuff and you cannot use it.

Please understand i am just trying to tell you my bitter experience.P3e/c has been designed to

have unlimited input but most of them do not either cross check nor help you.

Another example, i assigned budgets for my WBS, beleiving the fact that WBS roll up to the

project.But i could not roll up all the budget under each WBS to the project budget as the

program do not total the assigned budget under each WBS.

Fields required to be inserted through columns are BL2 & 3 cost and resource information.BL1,2 &

3 Calendar ID,Variance on BL2,3 etc..

Master / Sub-Project: As i stated EPS is just a graphical structure and do not match the Master

Project.For example if you were planning a Petro Chem. as a EPS (p3e) or Master Projects (p3)

with each area as Project (p3e) or SubProject (p3) you could not assign scheduling parameters to

the EPS as you could do it for Master.Say the overall Project has a period of performance of 5

years and each area had different milestones you could have Master Project with a finish

constraint and subproject with its own constraints.Can you do this with p3e no.

You said EPS is heirarch,do you know that EPS ID and Project ID is designed internally same in

p3e although it is called different.ex. you cannot have an EPS with ENGG and Project ID ENGG.
So internally it is all at the same level and same. In P3 if you had Master Project say PRJ1 WITH

sUB pROJECT ENGG,PROC & CONS and try to do the same in p3e you could not as the Project ENGG,PROC

& CONS cannot be duplicated in the whole database.

I just came accross some funny bugs on updating i had an activity with Actual finish date of 5

days, i wanted to change its finish date to reflect 1 day ie AS=AF it would not allow me to do.I

had to change my units to hours and then do this. The same if you want to status an activity

which you forgot in the first rev and you want to assign an AS & AF it would not allow to assign

before the data date.

The Timescale for Fiscal Year is another funny way of presentation,we have our Fiscal year

starting from October, when i change the timescale to fiscal year and have week/day it converts

the timescale for month of August to november & month of September to december.

There is more of issue related to p3e which i would detail later.

Thanks,

Rajeev

Rajeev

Please my name is Alex not Wang... or your can call me Mr. Wong, thanks.

BTW please read my previous post, what you mentioned in filter is correct and agreed my point is P3 dont have that function why complaint....

In addition, for the rest of your clarification, again if you read my reply carefully, you will find that yes p3e can do what you said...

Good Luck

Alex

Rajeev,

I feel you are still missing the point

P3e is not P3 and it will never be P3; it does certain things differently and it takes time to get used to that. (I recon from your message that you are still in the "denial stage")

If you find a bug, report it to Primavera; they will fix it either in the current release or the next one. (it is not P3)

If you find something missing, send an enhancement request to Primavera; they are likely to add it in the next release if you are not the only one. (it is not P3)

To illustrate the point: P3e Release 5 solves some of the issues you bring up, like filtering on responsible manager.

Concentrate your energy on making P3e work for you and bringing you the functionality you desire, unlike P3 it is a product that is in full development that will bring you a lot more once you’ll understand the concept.

HTH

Niek.

Hi Rajeev,

I do agree that your most of the queires are in the existing enhancement list of Primavera.

(IF you work in P3e, you will also come up with lot of enhancement for the present product, like exporting all Reports, layouts etc when we back up proejct in .XER.)

Layout: Yes it is painful if we manage multiple Projects.

WBS Filter : Yes (As are you aware workaround is available to do so)

P3e has a flexibility to change the planning Unit just a click away (imagine the painful process in P3). So I am seeing the greener side of P3e.

EPS : When Project ID can have 20 characters (compared to 4 in P3), you have greater flexibility in assigning unique proejct ID.I don’t see any problem in it. As Alex mentioned, EPS is a structure.

Field in Column: I agree on the extra field requirement.

As a final note, whether we like it or not, Primavera is focusing its full effort only in the development of Enterprise Edition. P3 product life cycle was over.

If your organization demands can be fullfilled with P3, you can continue to do so and can be shifted to P3e later.

Still I see the benefit of Enterprise version is more even it is missing some P3 features.

Sudharsan

Hi Rajeev,

I do agree that your most of the queires are in the existing enhancement list of Primavera.

(IF you work in P3e, you will also come up with lot of enhancement for the present product, like exporting all Reports, layouts etc when we back up proejct in .XER.)

Layout: Yes it is painful if we manage multiple Projects.

WBS Filter : Yes (As are you aware workaround is available to do so)

P3e has a flexibility to change the planning Unit just a click away (imagine the painful process in P3). So I am seeing the greener side of P3e.

EPS : When Project ID can have 20 characters (compared to 4 in P3), you have greater flexibility in assigning unique proejct ID.I don’t see any problem in it. As Alex mentioned, EPS is a structure.

Field in Column: I agree on the extra field requirement.

As a final note, whether we like it or not, Primavera is focusing its full effort only in the development of Enterprise Edition. P3 product life cycle was over.

Primavera is also trying to bring more functionality in every release. P3e 5.0 will be major product release. (UNDO function - Wow !! Which is a very long time request)

If your organization demands can be fullfilled with P3, you can continue to do so and can be shifted to P3e later.

Still I see the benefit of Enterprise version is more even it is missing some P3 features.

Sudharsan

Hi Sudharson,

You hammered the nail straight on the head when you said "If your organization demands can be fullfilled with P3, you can continue to do so and can be shifted to P3e later."

Why will companies shift to another software if they believe they can work effectively and efficiently on P3 3.1 using their own way of doing it. Planners insisting on using 3.1 are not stubborn nor they are one tracked-minded people, they’re just being practical and realistic.

It’s good that we’ve discussed some of the advantages and disadvantages of both softwares. But the reason I started this thread is precisely to get views of fellow planners if it’s really worth shifting to P3e now. As you said, the decision to do so will be based on organizational requirements. I totally agree with that. It’s not because the latest programme being developed by Primavera is P3e and not 3.1.

Lastly, I strongly believe that stopping the development of p3 3.1 is a lapse in judgement. I’m not a software programmer, so i can not argue on the merits in stopping the development. I’m just expressing my personal view.

Cheers,

Se