Let’s Challenge SPIDER

All,

Please allow me to go back to Vladimir’s statement:

"We start with the construction schedule as if materials are available at any moment. As the result we get material requirements at any moment."

If you’ll just admit (honestly), I believe everybody is doing the same thing, regardless of the software used.

Construction scheduling is not difficult if you got the details with you, which means complete engineering details. Consummables are easy to define and these shall fit with your activities.

Delivery schedule or Material availability is another story.

Linking the two (Construction Schedule and Material availability), is where the problems will come-up!

This is my question, is Spider capable of linking the schedules (as mentioned above) without using constraints (or without nailing certain activity or activities)??

This is what Vladimir didn’t answer!

cheers!

Hi Anoon,
I answered your question several times.
These two schedules are linked without constraints.
If an activity in construction schedule uses sone unique equipment then you may link delivery and usage activities with FS link.
If materials may be used on many activities then don’t link activities but use material levelling and activities that require materials that are not available will be delayed automatically. Material levelling is present in Spider Project.

Cheers!

Vladimir,

Again, it sounds like from the commercial side (Sorry).

I presumed you are saying that this will apply to a given or defined overall duration (say, contract duration)?

And I would say limited contract duration, with limited space (literal space) or defined interim milestones or whatever that has limits (and I guess everything has limits!).

cheers!

Anoon,

Even if two activities use the same resource linking one to the other in order to avoid resource availability issues is not necessarily the best approach. What if the two activities are in no way dependent of each other, as the job progress the relative start of one with respect to the other might switch, by using activities link you will prevent the software to schedule the best option. For small jobs you can handle this manually but for jobs with thousands of activities you are better off with the assistance of your computer, use it to your advantage.

Resource constraining is not about finding a feasible solution is about finding the best or close to best solution. It is an optimization problem that requires the use of computer algorithms to systematically look for the best solution, a solution that might change as your schedule moves with time.

Best regards,
Rafael

Hi Anoon,
yes, everything has limits. That is why we plan our resources, supplies, finances to be able to achieve our targets.

Hi Rafael,
very well said.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

I was checking on the modeling for an activity to start as soon as any of two finishes, you are right the logic was wrong, I have not found a solution within SureTrak limitations while on the spot I got it with functionality not available in SureTrak or P3 but could figure it out with the concept of consumable resources/material resources available in Spider Project.

In your SDPM presentation (see posting #31) on page 14 there is a Cash Flow Projection and I would like to know if you are using appropriate lags for your cash flow. I would never issue a cash flow curve on “accrual basis” but on “cash basis” that is, as it comes in and out of my bank account. This is a functionality I believe you are integrating with NPV or Net Present Value, this is also novel and not available in any other software I know. Please tell us if you have a whitepaper on this issue and how to get it.

I also would like to hear about S Curves in Spider Project, my software Primavera SureTrak is very limited and cannot generate reports in which you can compare the actual S Curve with a Baseline and cannot handle both Early and Late S Curves. Within SureTrak I can only generate a single resource graph at the end of my Gantt chart. Up to now the best functionality for Graphic Reports I have seen is by Primavera P3. What can you tell me about Spider Project?

Do you have a table comparing functionalities available between major CPM software that includes Spider Project?

Best regards,
Rafael

Hi Rafael,
in Spider Project you can select which cash flows to analyze. Your project may have many cost components (labour cost, material cost, machine cost, indirect cost, taxes, etc.) including payments, financing, income. For all cost components you define the cost of one unit. Some currency is selected as basic with unit cost equal to one, if some component is measured in different currency then the cost of one unit is defined by current exchange rate. Cost units for incomes are negative.
You can also create cost centers that consist of selected cost components.
So you can create cost center that includes your expenses on accrual basis and another cost center based on cash basis. As the result you will be able to analyze both cash flows. We also use this technique to analyze contract relationships - who owns to whom and how much at any moment.
Cash flow reports and S-curves can be published for any cost component and cost center.
And yes, Spider Project calculates NPV, IRR, MIRR and Payback Periods. Discount rates can be defined for all cost component separately (and may be different!).
Spider Project can show in parallel S-curves (cash flows) of any two project versions. One of these two may be baseline version or ALAP schedule version.
Spider Project keeps project archives, so you may be interested to compare current project version with the version created one week ago, one month ago, etc. including comparing cash flows.
Yes, we have such table. I will send it to you tomorrow.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

Hi Rafael,

I supposed that what you had stated in Post # 55 is too much for my very little understanding (if any).

Sytematic Algorithm...What is that???!!!

Resource constraining and without linking activites, so as to find the best possible solution using a machine???!

I STILL CANNOT BELIEVE IT!

cheers!

Anoon

All algorithms are systematic, this pompous name only means a set of instructions that systematically look for a solution, is the way a computer looks for a solution to any given problem, and once these general procedures are coded into a computer language are usually known as subroutines.

With regard to resource leveling, all software has its own algorithm, each looking for an optimal solution. Hopefully all will get close to the optimal solution, there might be different outcomes but close.

One way to get the optimal solution would be by generating all possible outcomes that satisfy the constraints and selecting the optimal one(s). Yes there might be more than one optimal solution. But these method, known as “Brute Force” would require an enormous amount of computer time, which is where these procedures excel.

The issue of resource leveling can be handled by almost any CPM software of today, what none can do, with the exception of Spider Project, is handling the resource leveling issue while at the same time considering other set of constraints, real constraints. This was the future, now it is the present, follow the leader.

If you are further interested into these types of issues you can look into the title of Operations Research, the branch of mathematics that deals with this kind of problems. After 30 years out of school to me this have become too complicated, just give me the tools.

About resource constraining without linking activities just imagine the following set of tasks you can work on only one at a time.

Do the laundry, Go to the Pharmacy, Go to Bank and make cash deposit.

All are completely independent activities so there would be no logic link, you most probably would solve the issue based on priorities, or maybe "float" the available time before they become critical.

Best regards,
Rafael

Hi Rafael,
the software that you use does not even try to find optimal resource constrained schedule. The best (like P3, P6. Open Plan) suggest the user to select some simple heuristics that will be used based on setting priorities to some activity fields.
Most primitive (like MS Project) use only one predefined simple heuristics.
So in the best case the user can try several simple heuristics trying to find the best one for the current project.
In Spider Project this approach is called standard.

But Spider Project includes iterative optimization algorithms that can significantly improve scheduling results. And this method in the software is called Optimization.
Though these algorithms do not guarantee that the schedule is optimal they will certainly produce near optimal solution.

That is why Spider Project resource constrained schedules in many cases are much shorter than the schedules produced by P6, MS Project and other tools though they are created for the same initial conditions.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

That MS Project does not look for an optimum solution is no surprise but that P3 neither is new to me, hard to believe.

UNBELIEVABLE ! ! ! !

Guess the only way to know is to compare side to side the same job under P3 and Spider Project.

Don’t take me wrong, it is just hard to believe. I would like to see some indepentent study on that.

Best regards,
Rafael

I can send you many examples of projects that you can level in different softwares and compare results.
You may notice that when you start the resource levelling the software suggests you to select the priorities. That is all - then activities that have your (defined by you!) priorities will get resources first. That’s all, the software does not even try to find an optimal solution.
In Russia this Spider advantage is just well known fact and nobody argues about this.

I spoke about this problem with Western PM software at IPMA Congress in Paris and PMI Conference in Boston in 1996. At these conferences I also spoke about Resource Critical Path (later called Critical Chain). Nothing was changed since then.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

I posted in Rapidshare the table you send me so others can look at it and make their own questions. I am aware it is not comprehensive but it is a start.

Spider Project Functional Features Table & other Software

For me only one sample job will do it, as we say here, “for a sample only one button is enough”. I will take a look at it and compare with Spider Project Demo.

Best regards,
Rafael

Rafael,

With reference to your post # 60, again, I’m not interested with your terms from outer space like "brute force"; "operations research"; "subroutines" etc.

I maybe interested in your "resource constraining" (Of course I don’t understand it, but just let me try, please..?).

For example: Instead of defining first activities or tasks, you first define your resources (or you can figure out both at the same time?).

Now, once you had defined your resources, you can now assign tasks or activites to the resource or group of resources.

Just doing the reverse of what you usually do using available or current softwares.

cheers!

Hi Anoon,
your post is not clear to me.

Project resources can be defined before activity definition or later. It depends on the project nature. If you plan some project inside the organization you have Organization Resource Breakdown Structure ready.
Resources are assigned to tasks when both are defined. If you don’t know specific resource that will do the work you can assign skill.

For an example: you need heavy bulldozer to do the work. In your resource pool you have Caterpillar and Komatsu. It does not matter which one to use though their costs and productivities are different.

So you create Skill Heavy Bulldozer, put both in this skill set, and assign Skill Heavy Bulldozer, because it is hard to say which one will be available at the moment when your task will be ready for execution.

Please clarify your question if I did not answer.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Hi Vladimir,

"Resources are assigned to tasks" - I supposed this is the conventional way.

I’m thinking of the reverse - Tasks to be assigned to resources (using a resource pool, resources calendar and a defined series of activities). With this, I guess your tasks becomes independent with each other, meaning - no links (so Mike’s "FS0" becomes irrelevant).

Can Spider do this thing?

cheers!

Hi Anoon,
it is not practical.
If the task requires a team of resources then you shall assign the same task to many resources, instead of creating resource crew and assigning it to many tasks where it is required.

The tasks are depended if there are technological restrictions on the order of work. Resource assignments do not change this. The links shall not be used only if the tasks are not dependent and can be done in any order. In this case the order shall be defined by the software if these tasks compete for the same limited resources. The computer shall select which tasks to do first basing on resource availability and schedule optimization criteria. Usually the best schedule is the shortest schedule.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

How could you say that it’s not pratical?

Imagine yourself as a "resource" that is tasked to defend Spider. Here, you exist first, your task comes later.

Again for example: You are a contractor with a maintained number of resources. Now comes your project, isn’t it first that you assign this project(the tasks) to your resources?

cheers!

No,
I always start defining the tasks to do and only then decide who will do these tasks. Assigning tasks to resources I need to assign the same tasks to many resources if there is a need in a crew and it is hard to control that all necessary resources are assigned to all tasks.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

You need to assign the same task to many resources (or group of resources or a team)?

Then can you not define a crew or a team, say Team XXX composed of labor and equipment with a common and total unit say in hours, and assign this team xxx to yyy task?

I mean, assign yyy task to team xxx. ?

cheers!

Yes Anoon,
we define a crew of resources (in Spider it is called multi-resource) and define the quantity (not hours!) of each resource in a crew (like 5 workers, one excavator, etc.).
Then you can select one or many tasks and assign multi-resource to all of them.

At any moment you may decide to change some crew (like to add one more worker) and these change will be automatically done everywhere that crew was assigned. If you changed driving resources then activity durations will become different (after schedule recalculation).

This is necessary for "what if" evaluations and useful during project execution. To change assignments manually is very time consuming in the real large projects.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Anoon,

I’m with Vladimir on this one. To plan a project properly you need to start with the scope and the logic, and then assign the resources required to deliver it in the sepcified time limit. To instead start with a defined list of resources, and then assign the activities would present the following limitations:

-Resources can be pulled from other projects, or assigned to them as required. But you won’t know what’s required until you’ve mapped out the scope & schedule. You can’t optimise the project by adding or removing activities in the same way (unless you have a very generous client!).
-Activities have a logical sequence which must be followed (you can’t fill a hole with concrete until you’ve dug the hole). Resources do not (you can utilise Jon’s time first, or Bob’s. It doesn’t matter). Defining the sequence of activities first ensures you satisfy this constraint. Defining the resources first does not have a similar benefit.

Cheers,

G

Hi Gary,

Don’t get me wrong. I supposed these are all Rafael’s and Vladimir’s ideas with their "resource constraining" and "activities with no links" using their "systematic algorithm"; "brute force" or whatever (i forgot some).

Now, you are saying that it’s not possible?

cheers!

Hi Anoon,

I’m saying you’re suggestion of:

""Resources are assigned to tasks" - I supposed this is the conventional way.

I’m thinking of the reverse - Tasks to be assigned to resources (using a resource pool, resources calendar and a defined series of activities). "

...is not practical.

I think what Vladimir and Rafael are suggesting is quite different:
1)Build your schedule as normal (including all logical links which are mandatory, but none which are sometimes included to manage resource limitations)
2)Assign the resources required to do the activities
3) Have the programming software do some magic computational stuff which will give you the best schedule which satisfies all the links and constraints you entered in step 1, but also adheres to whatever resource limitations you have told the software about.
4) As the project progresses, re-run step 3 with each update so that the actual resource limitations are continuously reflected in the latest forecast, throughout the life of the project.

This approach gives clear benefits to the 2 most common alternatives which are:
a) Ignore resource limitations, and get a schedule which for example may tell you you need to have 20 cranes on site on the same day
b) Use logical links to reflect the resource limitations by for example staggering the crane-requiring activities, and then having to manually add / delete / ammend all such links with each update to ensure the schedule remains fit for purpose.

Cheers,

G

Vladimir,

Exploring in sequential order your Comparative analysis of the functional features of PM software packages, the first item that attracts my attention is under Activity Types, Volume (physical), can you briefly explain what does this functionality means and provide us with some examples showing this cannot be modeled under software lacking this functionality.

I will continue through the table as to get a grasp on those other functionalities latter on and will follow up on the promised sample job showing how Power Project resource leveling is superior to the rest of the pack. This will be for desert, better be good, do not disappoint me.

Best regards.
Rafael

Hi Rafael,

Activity Volume is the physical quantity of work to be done. It is measured in physical units (meters, tons, cubic meters, etc.). If you set activity volume you shall also define assigned resource productivities (Volume per hour). Productivities can be assigned to driving resources or to the crews (multi-resources). The activity may be done by the crew consistibg of several resources with different productivities (different excavators as an example). So activity duration is calculated by dividing the Volume by total crew productivity. You remember that crews may be changed and it immediately change durations of those activities where these crews were assigned.

But it is not that easy. If you assigned not certain resources but resource Skills then resources that have the same skill can have different productivities. In this case you will be able to calculate activity duration only after available resources from the skill set will be assigned. So activity duration is calculated in the process of project scheduling (levelling) and is defined by productivities of assigned resources.

Introducing activity volumes we became able to apply different kind of norms, like Resource (Crews) productivities on certain types of activities, material requirements per unit of volume, unit costs, etc. We can also define payments per volumes to our workforce and subcontractors assigned to certain types of activities. It means that we can create and use different databases with the corporate (state) norms that in Spider Project are called Reference-books. Any kind of reference-books can be created and managed inside Spider Project and projects can be linked with different reference-books.

Besides, it is useful for estimating project execution and reporting. We collect information on volumes that were done and as the result have objective information on remaining durations, costs and material requirements. And for project performance analysis it is nice to know the quantity of earth that have been moved, the square meters (feets) of walls that were erected, etc.

If some activity has no physical measure you can measure the volume in percents.

When you enter actual volumes done on activities the software assumes that you spent corresponding duration, materials and costs. But you can change these data if necessary and enter new estimations of remaining volumes of work.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

For the size and type of jobs we do probably applying all these functionalities to all resources would be overkill but applying to a few like different production rates to different earthmoving equipment really stands out. After you get used to these functionalities it must be good to have them than missing them.

That you collect information on the volume of work done is something we used to call production reports to be included as part of your job costing in order to get unit costing instead of mere budgeting. To me tracing cost expenditure per cost account without tying these to a physical unit of production is a waste of time, and believe me this is not uncommon.

For years I was a Project Engineer and latter a Project Manager. As a Project manager if I asked the Project Engineer how much work was accomplished and he tells me 4,000 man hours I would ask him to be more specific. If by Monday he tells me 2,000 man-hours of Concretework, 500 man-hours of excavation, 1,000 man-hours of masonry installation and 500 man-hours of cement plaster by next Wednesday he will be at Mexico Street collecting his unemployment check. I need CY/cubic yards for Concretework, CM/cubic meters of excavation, SF of masonry installation and SY/square yards of cement plaster, I need to know my unit costs, please don’t give me EV acronyms. At the jobsite everyone knows the average unit costs of each, but BCWS, BCWP, ACWP and so on is non-sense, this is budgeting at its lowest level, just using weird parameter names.

That Spider Project has Earned Value Functionality is good, some Owners require it. I would not use it unless required, but better having it than not, just in case.

About Multi Resources (Crews), I love that, this is how construction work is managed on the field.

Can you pleas expand on Volume Lags and Strict Links, what are they for?

Best regards,
Rafael

Hi Rafael,

The usual way our project models are created is to create them using typical fragments library. Typical work packages are decribed in details in these fragments and they are just included in the schedules as project WBS elements with the correction (automatic) of their volumes. So creating the detailed project model is not hard.
But I agree that General Contractor needs much less details than subcontractors and Owners need even less details. But Spider Project was created to serve everybody and so everybody shall find necessary functionality.

Volume Lag means that the next activity can start or finish after certain volume (amount) of work had been done on the preceding activity. It is much more flexible than time lags. If volume lag is for an example 500 meters and dependency is SS, then next activity can start after 500 meters will be done on preceding activity and you don’t need to adjust time lags basing on actual data. Volume Lags can be also defined in volume percents (like 50% of volume shall be done on preceding activity before next activity can start).

Strict Link means that activities become pasted. If next activity is delayed then previous activity will be delayed also. Resource levelling can not break this link. It is used when next activity shall start exactly when link condition will be satisfied.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

Where is the functionality for Ladder Activities and progressive feed? Using Spider Demo I want to mimic the effect of stopping work in one ladder rung and see the effect through all of the dependent rungs, not just the end event.

Links, Lags and Ladders

“This is similar to the operation of SS and FF links, however, from an analytical viewpoint, the major advantage of a ladder is if work stops on one rung, the delay is automatically flowed through all of the dependent rungs, not just the end event.”

Vladimir, I already downloaded the demo version of Spider Project and I am getting ready for the Grand Finale, the comparison of resource leveling sample using Spider Project and my software.

Spider Project Don’t let me down.

Best regards,
Rafael

Rafael,
create new project and then several activities just pressing Insert.
Link first two activities (default is FS), then link them again and you will see Links Properties Dialog box, select Properties and define SS link with volume lag (50% as an example), then press OK and then Add and new link between the same activities will be created. Again go to Properties and select FF with 50% Volume lag.
You can define any number of links between two activities.
Connect other activities too if you like.
In the scheduling dialog there is an option Ignore preceding activity links if activity is in progress. Select the option that you need.

I had sent to you sample project in Spider format. Copy it into Projects folder and you will see it in the Working storage. Or just double click on project file and it will be opened.

I still did not have P3 at hand. Hope to send you Primavera files tomorrow.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

I just made some adjustments as to show in the SureTrak histograms hours/week same as Spider Project. I would like you to verify the compressed folder. The PDF have Bookmarks that will help you to navigate and understand each drawing.

Here you will find my PDF comparing SureTrak vs. Spider and also the P3 and Spider Files.

Spider vs. Primavera SureTrak


About using other possible resource leveling options with SureTrak, forget it, with Spider Project you do not need it, just set it to the optimization method. I have no patience to look and find the best combination of options will give me the best of what SureTrak can do.

Spider files are easier to move than Primavera, the program startup is faster than Primavera and it yields better resource leveling, better by much. This Spider thing is even easier to use.

And I thought this about Spider Project being an all inclusive resort was a joke, was about to ask you about the free banana boat ride.

Well, the desert was good, but we have not finished with the snacks yet, we call them “piscolabis”. I want to continue exploring other functionalities and maybe the “laddering” behavior, not sure about it being equivalent to Micro Planner Ladder Activities. The problem is I don’t have Micro Planner and doubt it is as easy to use as Spider Project. Maybe someone of our Micro Planner friends will jump and explain the functionality.

Best regards,
Rafael

Yes, the results are true. Other levelling options will produce similar results.

Did you notice that creating resource histogram in Spider Project you have two options - to show quantities or resource hours. It is not the same, the same resource hours do not mean the same quantities because resources may work part time or have pauses in their work.

I also want to know about Micro Planner. I played with this software long time ago and do not know its current capabilities.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

It was so easy to get the result I was looking using Spider Project that I did not got into this, I revised the SureTrak PDF as to my SureTrack histograms be in hours per week. To compare apples with apples.

My experience with Micro Planner was many years ago, with the MAC, when everyone else was using DOS and making jokes about the mouse.

Best regards,
Rafael

Yes, you were right comparing apples to apples.

But I want to notice that MS Project, P6 and other softwares define total number of resources and resource assignments in percents, or hours, but it is not enough. Assigning resource it is necessary to define both quantity and workload (in percents or hours). In other case you will not be able to distinguish between two resource units working with 50% workload and one resource unit assigned 100%. As the result you will get wrong resource constraint schedule and will have problems interpreting results. This approach works only for full time assignments.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

By the way “piscolabis” (snacks) can be better than desert, we also can have appetizers (Hors d’œuvre) for a start these can be caviar.

For “piscolabis” I am thinking about true critical path after resource leveling, like nacho chips with homemade guacamole. Maybe the sample job can be used for these purposes, I will investigate this unique functionality during the weekend, as you know my old notebook died and I am using my son’s notebook, he is claiming for some computer time.

Best regards,
Rafael

Hi Rafael,
if you will have time look at the sample construction project in Spider Demo. You will find assigning crews, simulating working in shifts, volumes of work and resource productivities, delivery and consuming of wall frames, project financing and simulating future profit, cost components and cost centers, etc. You can also play with material (frames) and cost levelling.
Enjoy!

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Folks

WELL I suppose it was about time I entered this discussion as Micro Planner is being talked about and how it does things.

First let me state, There is NO software in the WORLD that will ever do what the Planner & Scheduler perceives they need and want in order to provide a schedule which once having been created works for ever providing the results we all dream about.

Every single project is unique !, in fact that from my old and weary memory is how we describe a Project, it is a Unique endeavour with a Start and an End.

That is all there is too it !

Now the problem starts when we as Planners and Schedulers try to create a schedule which represents.. as we see it .. the truth.

Because the Client is not 100% sure of what they want, they create scopes, charters, specifications, drawing and all sorts of paraphenalia which they hope represents what they want. Plus to cover anything they have forgotten or is unclear, there is the CONTRACT, which runs counter to anything sensible and logical.

So we come along and try to immediately bang it into a piece of software which we love or hate (or both)and produce a schedule which is meant to represent Time, Budgets, Costs deliverables etc etc. The end date as per the Contract

But of course it doesn’t, never will. If you like me find yourself having a couple of days in which to take the scrappy Tender schedule we put together in the pious hope of winning the bid, (but don’t spend too much time and money on preparing the schedule, say management)you start to make compromises, the Project Director immediately without any reference to any schedule will direct you to the answer as they know it.

Worst still you will find yourself estimating durations for tasks which will be actually carried out by a sub contractor, you will make assumptions about the amount of resource they will allocate to your project, as well as likely costs. Have you any idea how much of the FF&E is imported and what price the dollar today for installation in three years time.

And all the time you are banging in constraints, without any real idea how the software handles multiple conflicting constraints, because we have to meet the contracted dates

Using all the clever bells and whistles that Vendor "X" has in their PM software to try and produce a half decent schedule which will actually stand up and last the week is pointless.

Basically unless you keep it really really simple, and do not try finde one of the 25 thousand combinations of switches that P5 and P6 can do for you to finesse the schedule, (and lot of other software tools too)you will only be a software jockey never a planner and scheduler.
You MUST be able to arrive at a Critical Path which has the Contract End Date, logically and WITHOUT a single constraint

Many years ago there was a small group of really brilliant Planners and Schedulers here in Melbourne (Australia)in about 1968 - 73 George Pockett and Associates was the name, who only ever did their P & S by hand calculations.

And I tell you they did a great job, it was the pressure of non planners in the construction companies who pushed for Computer produced schedules on a weekly basis, that killed them off.

Whats the point I hear you all cry !

The point is that all the foregoing posts regarding whether this software does this or that, is actually meaningless.

I love Vladimir Liberzon’s Spider package for all the things it can do, BUT I do not actually need any of them to produce a great working schedule.

The ability to assign crews, simulating working in shifts, work volumes resource productivities etc etc, is fantastic.

I wish I could use all these wonderful things on my current $AUD 500 million construction project, but the problem is that the moment I have to ascertain from the sub contractor what, when, how many, who will he put on the task, he can’t tell me. So far after a year I do not think one out of 76 subbies has been within 25% of what they thought they would do as to what actually is going on.

We run a very thin total project schedule with four weekly sub schedules and six monthly over view schedules to cover the four years of the project.

Simple multiple schedules using arrow diagrams and precedence diagram mixed with the interfaces between to cope with the drivers.

Of course we use Micro Planner X-Pert for Windows, BUT, I have to report in MSP2003.

Text Data Interchange is how we do it, so we use MSP for the pictures so loved by management and XPW for doing the actual work and resource driven schedules.

XPW has been going for thirty years without too much fuss and bells and whistles. It just does Critical Path, fully Resourced, and Costed, very simply !

BTW we also run full EVPM through XPW.

KISS is the only way

Well that’s my view

Raf

Hi Raphael,
thank you for joining this discussion.

As I wrote earlier different project stakeholders have different needs. At the Client position I will need less detailed schedules than in General Contractor position, in Subcontractor position I will need more detailed schedules than my General Contractor.

We are involved in management of construction projects at different positions. I agree with you that General Contractor usually does not manage subcontractor resources. But in my country General Contractor likes to know what number of people shall be involved in the construction work to finish on time, what main mechanisms and in what quantities shall be used by subcontractors, to be able to control the work and not just schedules.
It is also nice to have the estimate of future schedule and budget before the contract negotiations.

So at General Contractor position the schedules are usually prepared before the contract was signed and the crews include workers and machines without paying much attention to specific people skills. General Contractor can estimate the number of workers on site but does not know who of them is fixer, carpenter, brick layer, etc.
It is also nice to apply production norms to be able to require certain number of people and machines to be moved to the construction site. And good schedule is very helpful in contract negotiations.

When the contract is signed subcontractor submits the schedule that is based on his own estimates and availability of people and machinery to be used. And again it is vital to understand on what data the promised schedule is based, what productivities are used in duration estimates, if subcontractor schedule is reasonable and supported by necessary resource quantities.

For subcontractor the schedule is resource management tool. At this level the good schedule shall supply the management with the information necessary for assigning people and machines to do specific works, for supply management, for management costs and risk mitigation. And subcontractors simulate shift work, their crews include specific skills, not just workers, their durations are based on the real productivities of their resources, their budgets are based on the real costs of resources, etc. Subcontractors require detailed schedules that are based on the real data to be able to save money and to achieve contract goals with sufficient reliability.

In addition:
It is not rare when our General Contractors have three schedules (and budgets) of the same project - rather optimistic for own workforce and subcontractors, probable with contingency reserves for themselves and contractual for the Client. These schedules have different durations and budgets. Contractual schedule includes management reserves and is based on contract costs that include General Contractor profit.

And of course rolling wave planning is used in the long projects.

KISS is nice if you have reserves and don’t count money.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

KISS only works with an ASS, ASS means - Apply So-called System or Application of Systematic Strategy.

Now, you can all KISS my ASS!

cheers!

To all,

I guess any software that does resource leveling do it for some reason, because real life has constraints, because there is a need for it, whether you like it or not. It is a fallacy you can reason with simple FS0 logic all constraints, some are there just because they are a contractual requirement, others are because of physical limitations. Life is not that simple.

Any software developer that stands for simple SF0 relationships and do not believe in resource leveling or other type of constraints shall limit themselves to what they preach. If your software cannot do better than the sample resource leveling job Spider Project provided, if this is too complicated for you, then you better start thinking about retirement.

In summary I got:

Without resource       ES 1-Apr-09 EF 7-Jul-09 DUR 98 days
leveling
Primavera SureTrak      ES 1-Apr-09 EF 30-Jul-09 DUR 121 days
resource leveling
Spider Project       ES 1-Apr-09 EF 9-Jul-09 DUR 100 days
resource leveling

The numbers speak by themselves, ten activities, two resources, and only FS0 relationships, very simple. Multi constraining at the minimum expression, two sets of constraints, logical relationships and available resources, what all software can handle but not as good as Spider Project. Of course Spider Project can handle constraining on additional sets of constraints, something no other commercial software can do.



Best regards,
Rafael

Anoon

Very Droll !
I haven’’t heard that for at least forty years

Raf

Vladimir,

The greatest challenge to Spider is the user. There is a tallest tower under construction in St. Petersbergs.

I did search the internet and I noticed job posting for building construction in Russia. But it also require the planner to have skils in Primavera.

Question:

Is Spider the project management software for the Tallest Tower in Russia and whole of Europe?

Thank you,
Scarlett

Hi Scarllet,

No. this project is not ours and I don’t think that will be.

Among the projects that are managed with the Spider in Russia now:
- Preparation of Olympic Games in Sochi 2014 (248 construction projects, budget is much more that $20bln),
- Development of Russian Pacific Area and Preparation of the Asia-Pacific Summit in 2012 (more than 50 construction project, $12 bln),
- Preparation of 2013 World Student Games in Kazan (more than 50 projects, budget is still unclear),
- construction of Trans-Siberian highways (more than 5000km),
- construction of Boguchan Dam and hydropower plant ($5bln),
- a lot more is in the list, actually almost all large programs in Russia.

But for some reasons Gasprom is not among our clients and this tower will be constructed by Gasprom.

By the way this project did not start yet and caused a lot of protests in Saint Peterburg. It is like skyscraper besides Louvre. I would not be proud if Spider will be used in it.

And of course Primavera and MS Project have Russian distributors that try to compete with Spider Project and I like it.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

I’m confused with the two Mr. Rafs (Rafael and Raphael with the same last initial as "D."), I suspect they are one.

Anyway, if you want to ask me what a HOLE means? For me,
it means: Having-an-Organized Level-of-Experience (or it can be "Energy" (for the not too old); and "Efforts" for those who are actually working).

As you have said, Life is not Simple, but who is complicating it?

Now, if you will combine the three principles (very simple principles), the KISS (which for Mr. Dua is the only way); the ASS (application-of-systematic strategy - if you might forget) and the HOLE (as defined above), Isn’t it very easy to understand?

now, if you don’t mind...still very busy

cheers!

Hi Rafael,
how can you insert a picture in your message the way you do?
muchissimas gracias por ayudar
alejandro de argel

Vladimir,

Finally I can see true critical path:

In Spider Project true float is shown for those resource critical activities, a continuous path is shown.



In SureTrak only one activity is shown as critical, float means nothing and critical path is not continuous. If I filter for critical path only one activity will be shown on a discontinuous path.


note: all activities initially in parallel, no logic connection in between activities.

Working without true critical path does not make sense.

Best regards,
Rafael

Anoon

It just so happens that there are two of us with the same initials

I would suspect that there are several hundred in Planning Planet with the same initials.

I am an Australian of Italian parentage and the proper spelling of mu Christian name is Raffaelle.
Far to complicated for out Anglo Saxon friends who converted it to Raphael. I could not care less as most Italians Raphaels use ph (as did the Painter)
and the Spanish Rafaels use the F

I own Micro Planning International Asia Pacific as well as interests in the US and UK and German companies we have been going for over thirty years (started in June 1978) We write Project Management software which works and doesn’t cause the heated debates most other products seem too.
Better than that we also offer a first clsss support service to our clients, so in the unlikely case of our software not performing, we fix it and / or supply work arounds.

I am not claiming my software does everything that everybody else claims they can.

We do what we do extremely well and most importantly we meet the arithmetic criteria originally created by Kelly and Walker.

If you are such a sceptic, why don’t you try it.

The other Rafael was one of our original Macintosh users, and as we find when they have to use another product, they get frustrated at the inability of the software they have to use to produce the correct result without the hassles that X-Pert for Windows allows you to do.

Raf

Vladimir, What is DRAG and how it is used? In the Demo help could not find it, I can select it at the Calculations Options but does not holds. Somewhere I read that DRAG stands for the amount of time a critical activity can be reduced while at the same time the job duration is reduced by the same amount before other subcritical path get into its way. I also want to investigate on how to get longest path to a selected activity; you had a suggestion before but I need the details. As per your posting #11 on this thread: “You can consider the set of activities that precede current activity as the separate project with its own critical path, DRAG values, etc.” "With its own critical path", yes this is what I understand for longest path. This is a Soccer game with low scores, not basketball. After first half Spider Project 3 big goals, Primavera SureTrak 0. By big goals I mean: 1-Substantially superior resource leveling algorithms. 2-The ability to show true critical path and float under resource constraining, something Primavera SureTrak cannot dream of. 3-Material Resources, I call consumable resources, with a functionality that goes far beyond accounting for Materials but other resources such as space. Functionality not available in SureTrak. Sorry but the superior ease of use by Spider Project and many other will not count as a goal. The scaling bar for the screen layout and print layout is quite good but keep it out. Best regards, Rafael

Vladimir,

Something got mixed while editing my prior posting, hope you don’t mind, sorry.

Anoon

I had a very good experience with Micro Planner for the MAC is software worth considering. It is good somewhere else people didn’t got hooked on Primavera. The obsession with Primavera in the USA is backfiring at us, the end user.

Best regards,
Rafael

Rafael

I am very interested in the resource scheduler esults you are getting from Spider, what I would like to know are you having to manipulate a whole series of switches and parameters to drive the schedule?

Shades of P3 and P6

Or are you getting a decent result straight out of the box. By that I mean the settings supplied by Spider are such that they provide an optimum answer (solution) without you doing anything to the software, other than the few minor choices you NEED to make to derive your answer

Raf