Activity on Arrow and Non-Continuous PDM are wrong.

Rodel,
I agree that the data shall be entered only once.
But I don’t see much difference between capabilities of import/export and direct access.
Project schedule shall be updated at the certain predefined moments and it does not matter much what is the way of updating data to these moments (direct access or import from other softwares).
I don’t mean Spider, this is theoretical discussion.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,
I agree that Project schedule shall be updated at the certain predefined moments, but my point is because it is viewable online, we don’t have to worry if the data is correct or out of date. No import needed to be done first to have fresh data. No need to advise the other side of the world if the data was updated or not. It works like warehousing, accounting but the difference it is construction and or fabrication.

Best Regards,
Rodel

Rodel,
if the data dates for different schedule objects are not the same the schedule model is not workable.
You will not be able to reschedule, to provide most reports, the model is useless.
So there is a need for the certain data entry (or import) schedule - at what time, at what dates. Entering actual data between these dates shall be banned.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

Not sure if I am following you, but I understand CPM updating is not the same as sales updating at a Sears Store Cash Register, here sales data and inventory is entered on line. I believe looking at any schedule updating only make sense after all period data is entered, any look at the schedule before all data is entered, is misleading, is in error, should not be available to everyone. A company that is displaying to everyone partial project updates is in error. The validity of live data is a fallacy, is daydreaming, only after all updating data is entered and verified the schedule can be called to be valid.

Data shall be entered only once does not means at a single data entry session, it may take a couple of days. You can enter first all the updating data for work performed by your own crews and then on the next day enter all updating data as it become available from your subcontractors unless you have a glass ball and can enter their estimate for remaining duration.

Well seems you already answered my doubts while I was writing this reply, anyway here it goes.

Best regards,
Rafael

Vladimir,
I understand what you’re saying but in our case was different. This is how it works. We have an in-house database link to Primavera database where other stations are operating. The database was capable of viewing schedule data on the database where priority, look ahead, quantity are viewable for each item. Ex: Spool fabrication, supports, galvanizing, painting, insulation and many others. Weekly the other stations will input what they accomplished and we have a cut-off date. P6 has a capability of moving data date without scheduling (F9). When report comes, just a press of a button a new fresh schedule will come up.

Best Regards,
Rodel

Rafael,
We are not talking about sales or inventory here. It’s a capability of a database integrated to another database where input can be done on a daily or weekly basis. Yes on the cut-off date a schedule is review and validated before publishing. The source of input is from different location and instead of sending data from each and import into database; it can be done automatically on their side.
Best Regards,
Rodel

Rodel,
I cannot understand moving data date without scheduling. If remaining duration is changed then it is not just the moving of the data date, it is moving future events and dependent activities. It cannot be done without scheduling. Another option - looking to the wrong schedule.

When all reports will come and the data date becomes the same for all objects the model can be rescheduled.

Now imagine that all actual data are collected in Excel (or some other external program) and before rescheduling are moved to the Primavera database. In this case previous approved schedule is available to the moment when new schedule will replace the old one.

I don’t see the serious advantages of the first process. Direct access or importing does not change much.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,
Primavera has a capability of changing data date without scheduling. That doesn’t mean much but instead of using spotlight a data date can be shown on any date you want.
I agree with you that Direct access or importing does not change much except for the double effort which can be eliminated by direct access.
Ex: If we use export to refresh our in-house database then it another programming code will be done to validate the data from existing to a new one. (less error if using direct) Importing data compare to direct are almost the same except it can be done automatically using direct access.

Best Regards,
Rodel

Rodel,
I already wrote that changing data date without changing the remaining durations and moving dependent activities is misleading.
I don’t agree that importing requires double effort. If the process is established then it is just one command.
But in this case your schedule is always valid, the state when different activities have different data dates can be escaped.
Each approach has own advantages.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

Rodel,

Do you model resources in your scheduling and use resource leveling?

If yes, how do you interpret the displayed values for float as P6 do not display correct values of float after resource leveling? Do you hide the values of float to all others so unreliable values are not shown?

It will display available float in some activities that because of resource availability cannot be delayed without this delaying the schedule.

Best regards,
Rafael

Vladimir

i repeat what i have said before, i find spider very interesting( resource leveling, importing past period performance), and SDPM very promoting,at least it take into account criticality of tasks (that what I understood from the little documentations I could read) and i hope we will live in a world of diversity, i hate when i speak with others planners, and they have never heard about spider, powerproject, safran, openplan, x-planner,they thought Planning = CPM = Primavera (high end), Ms project (low end)
but i wish from you more effort to promote spider outside of Russia, i wish to read books about spider usage in English, i wish someday that you create a north American subsidiary. i love competitions, it is what drive innovations. And at the end of the day, the planner will gain.

for ODBC connectivity usage, and why integration is the new hot topic in portfolio management, i think Rodel has better explain it then me.



Rodel

let’s be honest, working with SQL database is not so easy, at least for a guy like me, i am a civil engineer, for example linking from SQL server to Excel is easy, but the other direction is not so simple (you know that already), and please don’t be so humble.


mimoune

Rodel,

Even if the only benefit of integration with your ERP software is for transferring of updating data I can see benefit on it, especially if the data comes from many jobs all happening at the same day, perhaps in different shifts, with short duration activities. Yes I believe under such circumstance the updating data should come from the line supervisor of each individual job and not from a 24hr a day timekeeper that will miss many details. By the way you describe the issue it seems to me it is of substantial value under your circumstances as not to trade it for the traditional updating procedure that are a better fit for most of us. In a similar way maybe Utilities can benefit of such way of updating hundreds of jobs per week.

I still agree with Mimmoune... “but using full database system for a standalone usage is ....”. Requiring use of P6 for 98% of construction jobs is insane. Can you imagine planning the substitution of a windows at a Federal Courthouse using P6, insane, the construction of a 30 classrooms School, insane, the construction of a Municipal WWTP, insane, the construction of a bridge, insane, the construction of a Drug Store, insane, a Home Depot Store, insane, a Marshalls Store, insane, a Parking Garage, insane and the list goes on and on.

Please take notice of my question about float after resource constraining, I am curious about schedulers being aware of the issue on resource critical float, lack of knowledge of this issue can be disastrous if you manage your job using the concept of available float and not aware of this.

Best regards,
Rafael

P.S. insane not only because P6 is based on a monstrous database but also because it is a BUG. I do not believe ever existed software with so many bugs.

Mimoune,

Thanks for the advised. I’m an architect in profession but grown more at site and construction instead on my drawing board and concentrate on the design. I love database especially when I learned how powerful it is by the used of different application and having integrated system that works fine.

Vladimir,
I’m sure you know the difference between 2 processes and a single process, online and offline. Like what you said all software’s had different advantages and disadvantages. Every company has their own common needs where on our case enterprise and open database are more appropriate.

Rafael,
Yes we do resource leveling when required. That’s one module from planning tool that every planner can live without it. As we know not all planners do resource leveling and it is not a day to day basis requirement. Every ones has their own need and specialty. Planning tool is just a tool that can used to make planners job easier than before. Some planner with out the knowledge of using this tool still can have their schedule and plan according to their knowledge and methodology but finished it on time and accomplished the works successfully. Before I used lotus 123 then excel to draw my schedule because those tools are not available until been installed and available to use but we manage to live with our schedule successfully.

Float is good to analyze project situation and very helpful if we know how to use it. But always remember float is not real. It is only an estimate and not a perfect science. Some planning tools maybe capable of producing it more accurate but is it necessity on planner daily works? Schedule is just a guide and not 100% perfect. I haven’t seen a Project that runs 100% according to the schedule. There are lots of technique has been used and introduce like CCPM, Theory of Constrain (TOC), CPM etc… but still not perfect.

Everyone has the right to have their opinion and everyone have their own talent. You may love your planning tools because it works for you but 100% sure not everyone have the same satisfaction like you are. Every planning tools have their own characteristics and capability but again it’s always depends on users needs. A good planner is not because he is a good operator of a planning tools, I seen a lot of planner that are very talented on using their tools, good presentation and reports but don’t know how to read a plan, coordinate with construction personnel, no knowledge on construction methodology, how activity has been derived, no knowledge in estimating and etc… so end up just an encoder or operator. (Majority of them are IT joins in a construction industry).

Friendly word of advised. Don’t criticize something that you don’t know about. It might fire back to you. WE have a saying “Little knowledge is dangerous”.

Best Regards,
Rodel

Rodel,
I want to clarify that the process of schedule updates can be organised different ways, and these ways have advantages and disadvantages (we do not discuss the software packages and the ways it is organised in the certain packages). When updates timing is different for different suprojects (project phases) the direct access to the common schedule model becomes complicated.

Yes, projects were successfully managed even before appearance of computers. But the tools that were created for project managers shall make it easier and PMs more informed. Project management for contractors means resource management. And if resource levelling is not used then the contractor planner does not know if the schedule is feasible. It means that the schedule is just a presentation tool.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,
As I have mention, every company has their own common need and not all packages can substantiate those need. Our company deals internationally and various country and with the help off modern technology and online facility gave us more advantage like having a live schedule up to date for a top management in different places with out asking for a schedule in each project. It’s all there available online.

Project Management is not only dealing with resource management, the planning itself deals with cost, time, resource, quality, safety etc… and feasibility of schedule are not only dealing with resources, it can be analyzed in many different ways where a good planner can demonstrate his ability and knowledge on project management. Planning tool will be a good help but not always the case. If a schedule is only use for presentation why we plan? What’s the used of planner? Why we schedule our work?

Best Regards,
Rodel

Dear All,

For me, all plans or schedules are wrong the first time they are published.

Schedules can only become correct as soon as they are realized.

And why we schedule our work?

To put everything in mind into paper, or a piece of chip! so that others can read what’s exactly in mind.

Best regards

IMHO,

I think what was missed in this discussion is the politics involved in projects.

There is no democracy in project development because the contract dictates what are the deliverables. There is no free will as we experience in a democratic world.

So while the thread is trying hard to state something wrong somewhere, there is no solution. As small time planning engineer, we just learned to move on since there is no solution.

Thank you,
Scarlett

Hi Anoon,

We as an architect have different views, all designs are correct; we don’t accept it is wrong. That’s our interpretation, perception and imagination. We love our creation and the beauty depends on eye of creator but we always accept client concept and suggestion because they have the right on their own. Same as the planner, their own creation and perception may be different from the PM, client and construction personnel but with their help and assistance it will soon pointed to the right directions. I will not say it’s correct but that’s my view.

Best Regards,
Rodel

Hi Rodel,

That’s what I’m trying to say, all plans can be wrong because of differences in perceptions. It is just in the imagination and how do you create an ideal interface between imaginations?

Hi Scarllet,

I believe there is a solution, and that’s what we are always trying to find out.

Best regards

All,

No offense intended.

Can you imagine if we are having the same imagination in the middle of the night (I don’t care who you are sleeping with)?

Scarllet,

There is always a solution, I supposed it is printed in the US dollar.

Best regards

Rodel,

Are you or your company forcing at gun point that all contractors use a rubbish and unreliable tool as P6? P6 is a tool that every other day someone discovers a bug, this is no secret just look at P6 threads, a tool where float is useless after resource leveling, unbelievably this is simple math missed by many schedulers.

Suppose all the designs by your company are correct and no revisions are needed, if needed is always the fault of others, seems like architects are a breed apart.

But as you said every company has its needs, then why not accept that the selection of the software by the Contractor shall be what satisfy his needs and force him to use software that satisfy the need of other at the expense of his own needs? Why many times as Contractors we have been forced to use Primavera software when we find it so unreliable?

Maybe you do not need reliable float display, but we do. We use the metrics as a buffer. If it does not matter then let us submit schedules with no float, anyway if P6 most probably will be wrong.

What is the use of nice P6 bar charts if not used by the Contractor as his own tool? P6 is all on the surface, the engine is bad. Keep in mind that if float display is wrong for the contractor managing resources with the assistance of the CPM tool then it is just a beauty of a bar chart to the eyes of others not his, is useless, is no true scheduling, is wrong math. To us math is beauty; if wrong there is no beauty on it no matter the color selection for your bars.

Best regards,
Rafael

Hi Rafael,

I’m just wondering how you had made your two-activity sample for P6 which according to you (several times already), displayed the wrong float after resource levelling?

I tried it several times also, and it is not displaying any float (0) or sometimes negative, which gives me the impression that P6 is accurately calculating, but you are always saying otherwise, that’s why I have developed some doubts as well, and no one (at least up to now) challenges that what you are saying is not true.

As we are always making schedules as correctly (at least in our own imagination) as we can, we seldom use resource levelling, as we had assigned resources considering that no adjustments is gonna happen during the course of the project.

Best regards

Schedule a 2 activities network, not tied one to each other by precedence logic but sharing a limited resource.

For example:

Activity A – 5 days
Activity B - 5 days
Both activities sharing Resource A.

Most software under resource leveling will schedule A and B at different time, the first one depending on your priorities selection. This is ok up to this point, but the problem is most will show float of 5 days on the first activity while a delay in this activity will delay the completion of your schedule.

Imagine that you as a Project Manager look at the available float as per your CPM schedule and start paying attention to those shown as critical and even start moving resources from those showing some float as to keep under control those showing no float. Because most software under resource constrained schedule will show the wrong float for resource critical activities you most probably will end up moving resources precisely from the wrong activities. You either will discover too late it was wrong or start doubting about the CPM float display. Well better start doubting about the CPM float display and either buy a glass ball or software capable of showing resource critical float.



The following example illustrates the error can happen not only on the critical path but also anywhere, just to make it clear how wrong it can be.



http://www.spiderproject.ru/library/pmie01_rcp.pdf

Best Regards,
Rafael

Dear Rafael and All,

An honest opinion, it somehow offended other planners that are not using resource scheduling in their projects. We seldom use resource leveling but still we’re credited for the early/on-time completion of our projects.

PP has helped a lot of planners to get better with their works with the threads they have read here.

Maybe we can try to call all concerned planners to vote in this thread if resource-leveling is really required or important in their planning needs?

_______________________________________________

Vote A for "Resource-Leveling Is Required or Important"
Vote B for "No Need, I Can Do Better Planning Withour It"

For me, I vote for B (1 point).

Best regards,

R. Catalan

Hi Rafael,

I suspect that you haven’t actually tried it in P6.

Please try it in P6 and tell us what you found out.

R. Catalan,

Resource levelling is important from the start, so you need to do it as accurately as you can during assigning of resources.

For me, it always depend on how you had structured your activities.

Best regards

Anoon,

I do not have the latest version of P6, we tried it but we found it so unfit for our needs it took us just a few days to make our decision. If you do a search of what I was doing at the very beginning of 2009 you will find we were like crazy looking for a SureTrak substitute, this took us months.

The following link provides an introduction to the ‘‘resource critical’’ issue.

http://faculty.kfupm.edu.sa/CEM/jannadi/backup-7april/Resource-Activity.pdf

Up to this moment I only know of one software, Spider Project, that gives correct values of float after resource leveing. I will be very happy if I learn there is another good alternative that provides it. Needless to say that if P6 ever provides it that will not be enough to make it a good alternative, even with it I would keep it out, too many bugs and the wrong interface.

Catalan,

About using or not resource leveling, I go for the use of it. I also accept as valid the use of “soft relationships” but only if you accept this can vary as the schedule moves. I believe a good algorithm will do better than by hand. As a matter of fact I believe at times is convenient to combine both. Also for your knowledge most of my clients use the “soft relationships” method in relatively small jobs that can be handled with 600 activities schedules. These are Schools, Parking Garages, Office Buildings, Condos, Bowling Alley, Hangars, Jet engine Power Check Pad, Housing Developments, nothing out of the ordinary.

I compare the results of their approach against resource leveling loading the schedule on my own using the estimate used for bidding as estimating is what makes my living, scheduling is for fun.

I believe in the concept of freedom, if the Contractor want to use the soft relationships method to do HIS OWN PLANNING, he should be able to do so, forcing him to use other software and other methods is undemocratic, is wrong.

Hey MS Project is the most widely used planning software in the world, then why not ban the rest?

Best regards,
Rafael

Hi Rafael,
I pity you. It’s so sad to hear that you are being carried away by your tools. I’m not sure if you know the correct way of managing a project. Project Management never relied on tools. It is used only as a guide or assistance to speed up the process. Always remember no matter what tools you use it will not decides for you. A tool dependant Project Management always leads to defeat and failure. A good leader always uses his conscience, expertise, and experience in decision making and not allows the tools to decide for him.

Project Management is not only resource management. Cost, Time, Quality is the 3 key for planning. The rest will follow like risk, safety, communication…etc…

As I mention to you before, FLOAT IS NOT REAL!!! It is only an estimate and used as guide or indicator. No math or science has been proven yet to make it perfect. Planning tool will not tell you if your Project is safe, will not tell you what risk is involve, the quality of your works, resources are too crowded and poor productivity and many others. Planning tools will not make you as a good planner.

Note:
Clients or stakeholders always looking for systems that compatible to their system as much as possible so the data exchange and communications will much easier.

Best Regards,
Rodel

Rodel,

Your assumption is erroneous, we are not talking about me, we are talking about a specific tool, one of many used by Project Managers, there is no reason for you to take is so personal, and to me this attitude is a real indicator of your intellect and abilities as a manager and human being. We should be talking about the tool with use of reasoning not with pure emotions. I believe you should raise a little bit your level and be more respectful with others. Your questioning about my abilities as a manager I interpret it as a personal offense.

You are kind of pretentious but for a change let’s talk about you: You probably do not even know why there are 3 blade trowel machines and 4 blades trowel machines, they are to be used with a different purpose. Perhaps you throw into your specs super flat floor specifications but never have supervised a crew that consistently produces these floors. Probably you do not even know the proper way of mixing partial batches of epoxy. I am not sure if you know about these issues.

I agree float is no real, is just the stupidity of some designers who insist in writing specifications making reference to float that we are forced to use it as if real. If these tools are so unreliable why so much fuss as to take it away from the contractor. If you do not care about the tool let us decide how relevant it is for us.

Here in the USA and its territories scheduling is considered a relevant thing, is a matter of serious and in depth study by prestigious institutions, even think tanks such as RAND Corporation are in ocassions consulted by our institutions about these models. Our military and defense contractors started using these tools over 60 years ago.

I perceive you do not appreciate the value of scheduling and the tools for planning, perhaps because you never worked as an at risk Contractor, but at home we take very seriously these tools. Now I can see why some specifiers do not care and take it out of the contractor own toolbox, is obvious, they do not value the tool other than for it to create Beautiful Chars they do not believe. I still do not get why their need to show such unreliable charts to the stockholders?

Here at Planning Planet we all care about the tool.

Best regards,
Rafael

Hi Rafael,

I’m not taking it personally. I love to help and guide those people whose being blind, brainwash due to his belief. We in planning planet not only concerned on a tools we used. We are more concerned on sharing our knowledge, expertise and guide people on the right path. We don’t criticize something that we don’t know about.

We know how to accept fault and defeat. We are open minded and not self concentrate.

I’m not questioning your ability and I keep saying everyone has a right to voice out their opinion and we respect it. If you want to be respected you need to be open minded. In real world nothing is perfect; there is always a right tool to a right place.

We are more concerned on communication and compatibility rather than talking to different language that leads to different ways.

If you’re saying that the perfect tool is spider why the developer/ creator is not claiming that they have the perfect and best planning tool in the whole world?

As you said you haven’t tried P6 on your example, how can you prove that you are correct?

Don’t make conclusion for something that you haven’t prove yet.

Again if that’s your belief and opinion I respect that.

Thank you,
Rodel

Rodel:

-"If you’re saying that the perfect tool is spider why the developer/ creator is not claiming that they have the perfect and best planning tool in the whole world?"

I never said the perfect tool is spider, I said it is the only tool to my knowledge that provides you with the correct value for float after resource leveling. You are trying to put words in my mouth that are not mine but yours, you are wrong again. If the developer starts claiming he has the perfect tool he would fall into the error of being pretentious. He knows nothing is perfect and that most appropriate planning tools are not limited to CPM schedules. He knows that if you planning tool is for a queuing model then other software such as GPSS (General Purpose Simulation System) is the way to go. The same might happen for other planning needs where linear programming or any other mathematical tool might be better models. I undertand the military make use of other planning tools for planning and scheduling some military operations, I am sure he knows.

-“As you said you haven’t tried P6 on your example, how can you prove that you are correct?”

I said I have not tried my example on the latest version. I tried on a previous version and it showed wrong values of float, you are wrong again. I have no means of testing the 2 activities schedule on the newer versions. I started using Primavera P3e about 8 years ago (is not the old P3 we all know), the precursor of P4, P5 and P6, all as bad and full of bugs as the last time we tried a version of P6 about a year ago, but I cannot tell you about the version because it was never installed on my machine.

Best regards,
Rafael

Rafael,

My apology if your thinks I’m wrong. If that’s what you believe go for it. Be happy and wish you all the best of luck.

Best Regards,
Rodel

Rodel,
I understood that this question "If you’re saying that the perfect tool is spider why the developer/ creator is not claiming that they have the perfect and best planning tool in the whole world?" is to me?

I will try to answer.

Spider Project creates the best resource constrained schedules, levels not only renewable resources but also materials and costs and calculates Resource Critical Path.
But you don’t use resource levelling.

Spider Project works with work quantities and has the internal tools for working with norms databases and fragment libraries.
But you prefer to use expert estimates of remaining durations.

Spider Project keeps project archives and shows trends of all project parameters.
But you don’t use this advanced management tool, for you it is enough to compare current schedule with the baseline.

Spider Project simulates risks and controls probabilities to meet project targets.
But you don’t require risk simulation capabilities.

Spider Project is very powerful and easily calculates the schedules that consist of many hundred thousands activities.
But your schedules are not large and you don’t need to level the whole portfolio of your projects.

The list is long and I will not be able to list everything that you don’t need in the forum post.

So Spider Project is not the best tool for you. It includes too many functions that you don’t plan to use.

There is not such thing as the best tool for everybody.
People shall understand their needs and select those tools that do what they need though they shall estimate not only current but also future needs.

You don’t need Land Rover to drive to the nearest shop. It would be overkill. Land Rover is not the best car for driving to supermarket.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Hi Vladimir,

Thank you for your kind explanation and that’s exactly my point.

Here are my quotes ” In real world nothing is perfect; there is always a right tool to a right place.” – (same as what you said)

we are more concerned on communication and compatibility rather than talking to different language that leads to different ways. (We adopt what is required to have same language to understand each other)

“Clients or stakeholders always looking for systems that compatible to their system as much as possible so the data exchange and communications will much easier.” (If we use different systems from each other how are we able to communicate?)

Best Regards,
Rodel

Hi Rodel,
PM tools shall help with decision making.

If your tools cannot answer to what if questions then there are two options:
1)     The tools are poor,
2)     The tools are not properly used.

The tools do not decide for the people but can help to verify people’s decisions.

The tool is useful only if the project model was properly created and is able to simulate the real work. In this case the planner will get the answers on questions like what if I will add certain resources, what if I will change work time, what if the supply will be delayed, what if new risks will take place, what if we will work in different sequence, etc.
Decisions based on intuition and experience shall be verified by simulating their impacts on the project targets. If it cannot be done then you have not scheduling but communication tools and your schedules are just drawn to communicate your estimates.

You wrote “Project Management is not only resource management. Cost, Time, Quality is the 3 key for planning. The rest will follow like risk, safety, communication…etc…”

Exactly! The project model shall integrate all necessary information. And what do you suggest – to manage time and costs without managing resources? Cost and Time depend on resources, isn’t it? At least for the Contractor. And reserves that shall be included in the project schedule and budgets depend on the project risks. So the model shall include all of this if it is used for decision support.

It’so sad to hear that you never used the tools on which you can rely.

In any case your requirements, understanding and the usage of PM tools may differ from the requirements, understanding and the usage of your contractors. You don’t need the resource management but your contractors do need to manage their resources with the help of PM tools and they shall be able to use what they need for the proper management.

I understand your concern: "If we use different systems from each other how are we able to communicate?"

You may require certain formats of the contractor schedule reports (MSP xml, Primavera xer, Spider sprj, etc.) if you need to include the Contractor schedule in your portfolio. But destroying the contractor project management system is not in your interests at all.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Hi Vladimir,

Your qouted exactly what I post. "Project Management never relied on tools. It is used only as a guide or assistance to speed up the process."


As I always said, I have no comment in regards to SPIDER since I don’t have any idea what is it capable of. If the chances permit me, I will love it for sure.

What do you mean by this? "But destroying the contractor project management system is not in your interests at all."

Best Regards,
Rodel

Rodel,
I do not discuss Spider Project in this thread.
I tried to discuss different approaches for schedule updates from the theoretical point of view.

Project Management System is a set of different tools that include internal Project Management Guidelines that describe project management processes and decision making routines, corporate databases (production norms, unit costs, material requirements per volume unit for different activity types, etc.), templates, resource, costs and material dictionaries, risk register, etc. They cannot be abstract because they depend on the tools that are used. For an example you will not be able to use the databases for resource productivities if the tool does not work with resource productivities and even does not have corresponding field.

Now let’s imagine that the Client requires to use different tool (not to export the information to the required tool that may be proper if the project is a part of the larger program, but to use).

The databases become useless (other tool does not support them), fragments that describe typical technologies can not be used for schedule development, performance reports shall be modified, risk simulation becomes impossible, management technologies that may be based on buffer management shall be changed, etc.
As the result the schedules will be drawn by the best painter in the company.

Welcome to the stone age and intuitive decisions!

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Dear Vladimir,

Can we buy/download the:

"internal Project Management Guidelines that describe project management processes and decision making routines, corporate databases (production norms, unit costs, material requirements per volume unit for different activity types, etc.), templates, resource, costs and material dictionaries, risk register, etc"

I would like to read the material if it is available.

With kind regards,

Samer

I am sorry, Samer.
Most our clients speak Russian and the documents that are created are in Russian.
Besides most companies do not like to share their internal standards.
I will think what can be done and will write to you directly.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

I have no objection on any management tools, impact we used those tools. We have integrated System that talk to each other. (like Prism, SAP, Estimating module, Risk Analysis module using Monte Carlo simulation and etc…)

Our company have own IT analyst/ developer/ software programmer dedicated to continues improvement of PMS, communications and maintaining the integrated system.

I’m not sure what you are trying to portray here.

Best Regards,
Rodel

Rodel,
maybe I did not understand you correctly.

You wrote:
“Clients or stakeholders always looking for systems that compatible to their system as much as possible so the data exchange and communications will much easier.” (If we use different systems from each other how are we able to communicate?)

From this I understood that you advocates the right of the Client to dictate to Contractors what project management tools shall be used.

I tried to explain that it may lead to worse project management and may create huge problems to Contractor’s management teams, that the Client and the Contractor have different requirements to the schedule model, etc. I think that the Client may require certain formats for the data that are submitted but has no rights to dictate what tools the Contractor shall use to manage its resources. At least it is not smart.

I am sorry if it was not clear, English is not my native language.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Dear Vladimir,

It is ok, I will end up buying the software in the future. This is what usually happens with all companies if you want to learn the tool.

I had to ask. I think that you might be talking about new methodologies and Project Management issues. This you can publish and sell with International Book Publishers. It becomes easiers and more accessible to everyone at reasonable prices.

With kind regards,

Samer

Vladimir,

Thank you for your clarification. My apology if my wordings are not clear. We don’t dictates; we follow what is required and were agreed by the top management.

With Kinds Regards,
Rodel

Samer,
If you are interested in the methodologies that we use and promote look at the publications at http://www.spiderproject.ru/publ_e.php#eng and http://www.sdpmworld.com/
Soon I will add there new presentations that will be made for PMI Great Lakes Chapter, PMI COS Conference, and Risk Management conference in Singapore. So don’t forget to return.

If you want to learn the tool (I mean Spider Project) you can download free Demo from http://www.spiderproject.ru/demo_e.php

Demo is almost full functional (except some export/import capabilities) but has 40 activities per project restriction. It is not necessary to buy if you want just to learn the tool.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Rodel,
I don’t mean you personally.
I wrote about general Client - Contractor relationships.
I think that the Client may require certain forms (formats) for the schedule submittals, what level of details shall the schedule include, but not what tools and methodologies to use for Contractor construction management.
Do you agree?

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Thanks Vladimir,
Certainly agree and I believe that’s the practice here in Australia. We respect each company’s capability.

With Kind Regards,
Rodel

Thank you Vladimir for the links.

With kind regards,

Samer

Thanks Rodel,
I am glad that we have the same oppinion.
I understood that Rafael is disappointed by his Clients that require the use of the certain software that he does not like at all. It looks like the common practice in his country.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

Anoon,

You were correct in your posting #73, the 2 activities sample job cannot illustrate the erroneous calculation for total float done by P6, a larger 4 activities job is needed. Your way of debating the issue is the correct way, and I thank you for being one of the very few who took the time to verify the sample job and call it to my attention.

I just got in my e-mail a sample job using a sample schedule of 4 activities in parallel, it still show wrong total float calculations. I was told that because of the way P6 calculates total float the 2 activities example is not good to illustrate P6 wrong calculation of total float. Seems lik we need a 4 activities job to illustrate that total floats are not calculated properly by P6. Still with P6 you never know when calculated floats are right or wrong.

Remember I do not have P6, this is from a screen capture received by e-mail, therefore with P6 this is as far as I can go, but should be enough. You can try it yourself and let us know about your findings. Note the sample is based on 4 activities and 2 resources plus some link between activities, this might be said to be closer to real life jobs, where schedules use more than 2 activities and 2 resources.

I do not have P6 and already discarded Primavera SureTrak because is incompatible with Windows 7 and unacceptably slow using a virtual machine therefore in the future I will use the 4 activities sample job as provided, until P6 and others can get it right with this 4 activities sample job.

Best regards,
Rafael

Hi Rafael,

I believe that the screenshot that you are showing now is from P6. However, I don’t know what settings you had used (or used by someone who had sent you the sample), for this example.

P6 has lots of options, so finding the right option alone can become difficult for the not so experienced (like ME).

I tried it again with four activities sharing the same (single) resource and run / level it.

It shows zero floats (Total, Free, Remaining) for the first two activities, and negative floats for the third and fourth activity (for the remaining float only, the rest all zeros).

And please note: When displaying resource usage spreadsheet, I for one believe that it is calculating accurately (at least with the settings that I had used for the 4 activities). Beyond that (or with more activities and options), I don’t know or not sure.

Best regards

p.s. well, I had the feeling as well that if there are some conflicts, P6 just ignore it (or will not react). I think it is much better if the Program will show some warning or hint/help like the one done by excel when it cannot read the formula. Again, I’m not sure of this, I’m just a civil engineer and not a computer expert.

Anoon,

I did not worked the sample job but because I do not have P6. Note is using 2 resources, is not a single resource. Still simple enough for illustration purposes.



I agree with you a responsible software developer that knows some values as displayed are wrong should warn the user in a visible way, I would go as to say under these circumstances this knowledge should invalidate any disclaimer because is of his knowledge and hiding the fact is intentional. But jurisprudence is a dynamic thing; perhaps eventually under certain circumstances this protection will be unlocked.

Best regards,
Rafael