Claim before Baseline programme submission

You cannot make EOT claim because the Client did not provide you construction drawings so far which is basis of a Baseline Schedule and without having this you cannot prepare Baseline Schedule.

Moreover in the absence of Baseline Schedule how did you prepare EOT claim?

I’m talking about the Main Contractor’s options at this stage, and not for right/wrong answers!

As per your statement, Shahzad, if the Good-for-construction drawings are not issued, A BASELINE PROGRAMME CAN NEVER BE MADE. This is not always true. Secondly, claims procedure do not necessarily depend 100% on the Baseline Programme.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

It all depends on your contract. Normally your contract should confirm the issue for the AFC dwg. I would suggest reqeusting (Letter) these dwg from the client as this is currently influancing your contractul obligations in producing a detailed schedule. (If this is true)

But saying all of that I am not sure what state the Bid dwg is If they have suffieciant detail I would do a schedule base on this and clearly show an activity on the schedule showing AFC dwg required and then the following activity showing review of the schedule accordingly. This will show that you are proactive rather than just looking for excuses not to submit a schedule.

Cheers

Vishwas,

Jaco has given some good advice. Non-issue of AFC drawings is no excuse for not preparing and issuing a baseline programme.

You should prepare the baseline based on the best/latest information you have. If this is the bid drawings then so be it, and show activities & dates for receipt of AFC drawings. Your submission letter should state the information you have used for preparing the baseline schedule. The schedule should comply with the project start & finish dates in the Contract, and any other Contractual dates.

It you get into a claim or dispute situation then it will be in your favour if you have been proactive, and informed the Employer of the dates you require AFC drawings to comply with the baseline schedule.

Roger

I totally disagree with Roger to some extent and especially viswas that a EOT can be prepared and win without baseline schedule and construction IFC drawings.

Shazad point of view is more logical and practical. Do not corelate here with bid drawings with constrcution drawings in this case if the Contract has already been awrded to u

Vishwass: Shazad is saying only about EOT claim not other commercial claims which u can prepare without schedule .

Have both of you any authority and judgment on the said cases that u won the cases of EOT without baseline schedule and IFC drawings. If yes , inform us for our knowledge.

You cannot violate and by pass the Contract by giving such self created statements. So try to follow the Contract.

No change in my point of view - “EOT claim cannot be established without having baseline schedule and construction drawings"

What if you have to do the dwg

Do u mean that the Contractor makes the drawings on behalf of the Engineer?

Hi Shahzad

I was wondering if you know the different type’s of contract.

Some contracts when you do work on a turnkey (or other) part of your contract is submission of DWG for approval once these are approved it is AFC. WOW it is your job to do the detail design.

What will you do in such a case wait for the design to complete before you do the schedule NO you will do the schedule on the Idea. That is why we are called planners and not computers because we can think and must have the technical knowledge/experiance to do a schedule before the design is done.

Colin’s reply is good and appropriate that the same as of Shezad.

Hi Joshi

Normally a Tender schedule is a lvl 2 schedule and not a lvl 3. I think I have only seen maybe once a lvl 3 schedule at tender stage.

In order to use a tender schedule as the baseline it should at least be to a lvl 3. But I do agree that if the tender schedule was done correctly it could be used but 99 times out of a 100 you would find that the tender schedule is a quick 5 minute schedule just to comply with the tender. This makes sense because a schedule cost a company money to develop. Most company’s don’t feel it is required to spend money on a 20% probable work.

Cheers

Hi Guys,

The discussion here seems to revolve around AFC drawings, surely a construction company would not take on a project without some idea of the scope of work, or a bill of quantities and at least some decent layout drgs, which can be used to put together either a level 2 or 3 schedule at tender stage. Such a schedule should have sufficient detail to identify things like contract award, drawing issues, site establishment, procurement etc.
My personal problem always is that not enough thought is put into tender schedules, as they are at the end of the day the basis of any claim. I think if the right issues are highlighted in tender programmes, then you can claim before a level 4 programme is submitted, especially if you have effected your commitments in terms of your tender programme.

Regards,

Philip

As long as a ’contract’ is in place, then you can make a submission for an extension of time.

The extent of the EOT requested should be based on the programme available to the parties, in this case the tender programme.

The Contractors entitlement to an EOT is not lost because he has not received AFC drawings and/or not issued a detailed construction programme.

Roger Gibson

Hi Roger,

I agree, but it would be stupid to go ahead, without any "Contract" being place, such a contract could in various forms, such as a letter of intent, etc.

Regards,

Philip

Totally agree Philip.

Roger and Philip

You both are correct in saying that

"The Contractors entitlement to an EOT is not lost because he has not received AFC drawings and/or not issued a detailed construction programme."

and that is only the logical and contractual answer of the question .

Hi Shazhad,

That is what I was getting at. But, there still is a need for a good high level tender programme.

Regards,
Philip

Hi Shahzad

The Queestion is can he make a claim

I think your answer is he entitled to one.

Further remember the contractor is under obligation to produce a schedule (I am use to that the contractor must identify all interface on this)

Assume you submit a EOT claim

Can the client argue that contractor has not submitted his schedule within two weeks WOW the contractor has delayed the owner in prioritising and producing the AFC dwg.

The Client did not know the AFC (Or which) was on the critical path.


Normally on a project with a 30 month duration AFC will be issued for more than 75 % of the time and not all in one batch.

I still will suggest do a schedule and submit this to the Client.

Cheers

Hi Jaco,

I don’t think AFC drg’s should hold up the schedule, as you rightly state in most cases AFC drg’s could be issued up to 75% into the duration of the project. Normally a set of issued for information drawings a the start of the project, and a scope of work should be sufficient to draw, up a schedule. However any EOT claim can be based on a tender programme.

Regards


Philip

Hi Vishwas,

As to your original question, I would suggest that if the Contract has been executed (signed) then the rights and obligations of the Parties have kicked in, and if the Client has defaulted in any way that impacts the Contractor’s ability to start and proceed with the Works in accordance with the Contract, then irrespective of whether there is a Baseline Schedule or not, the Contractor is entitled to raise a claim for EOT under the Contract terms.

There may well be an argument about what forms the basis for measuring the EOT, but in my view – and as Roger correctly points out - the right to claim EOT comes from the establishment of the Contract, not from the existence or otherwise of a Baseline Schedule. I also agree with Roger that the EOT claim should be predicated on the information that is best available to both parties, in this case it appears to be the Tender Programme. With the use of the Tender Programme, despite its lack of close detail, both parties were at least aware of the importance or otherwise of the need to supply the drawings on time.

Hope this helps,

Stuart

www.rosmartin.com

Totally agree Stuart.

I just want to add another point though. EOT is based upon critical path delay. Without an agreed plan in place it is hard to identify a critical path. With some careful negotiation you may be able to get an agreement in principle on EOT in the circumstances you decribe; but the intentions of the other party and how you handle them are key here I think.

Hope it works out for you Vishwas.